BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Computer Courses Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Rhys Sage Guest Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:13 pm    Post subject: Computer Courses Today, out of interest, I looked to see what computer courses were available locally. I was expecting to see courses in C++, Delphi, C# etc. when I picked up the local brochure. What did I find? A lot of courses that defy belief. Perhaps the piece de resistace were the 3 levels of "Flight Simulation Workshop". Immediately, looking at that, the thought came to mind: "how to write flight simulators" which would have been a very narrow course aim with extremely limited market appeal given that there are at least half a dozen really good ones out there. Then I read the course description which essentially boiled down to "how to play Microsoft Flight Simulator". Now I realise that local colleges have become an entertainment medium. Is anywhere else like this? There were page after page of courses in my area that offered this kind of joke course. -- Yours, Rhys Sage. www.sageworld.freeserve.co.uk for code snippets and software downloads. -- Vini vidi vici -- (Team Zip) Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Rhys Sage wrote: Quote: Today, out of interest, I looked to see what computer courses were available locally. I was expecting to see courses in C++, Delphi, C# etc. when I picked up the local brochure. What did I find? A lot of courses that defy belief. Perhaps the piece de resistace were the 3 levels of "Flight Simulation Workshop". Immediately, looking at that, the thought came to mind: "how to write flight simulators" which would have been a very narrow course aim with extremely limited market appeal given that there are at least half a dozen really good ones out there. Then I read the course description which essentially boiled down to "how to play Microsoft Flight Simulator". Now I realise that local colleges have become an entertainment medium. Is anywhere else like this? There were page after page of courses in my area that offered this kind of joke course. Welcome to the age of the dumbing down of all culture. A student in an "advanced" high school English class which I was teaching was telling me that movies were much more important than literature, and he really couldn't see why he had to read literature but his parents were making him take the advance course anyway. This was an "advanced" student and he couldn't fathom why one should read Shakespeare instead of watching wahtever was the at his local movie theatre or on his DVD player. Imagine then what the "non-advanced" students are like. Soon popular music will be declared much more vital to people's understanding than Mozart and Bach, and no doubt adverisements will be declared more interesting than Rembrandt, Vermeer, and Monet. Where it will end is in people whose stupidity is so vast and uniform that they can be manipulated as surely as any dictator has done in the past, without the need for any type of physical coercion. That is the effect of most education today, and your report from the trenches of computer learning just verifies it in that area. But I have already had it verified in nearly every other area of intellectual life in my own experience. Back to top Benny Hill Guest Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:51:09 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: A student in an "advanced" high school English class which I was teaching was telling me that movies were much more important than literature, and he really couldn't see why he had to read literature but his parents were making him take the advance course anyway. This was an "advanced" student and he couldn't fathom why one should read Shakespeare instead of watching wahtever was the at his local movie theatre or on his DVD player. Imagine then what the "non-advanced" students are like. If it makes you feel any better Edward, I could easily have been that advanced student. When I was in high school I had no desire to read anything more challenging or meaningful than the latest sci-fi/fantasy books from my favorite authors. However, after taking a literature class in college (and possibly growing up a little bit ) I realized that Shakespeare, Lord Byron, et. al. were every bit as interesting as my old high school english teacher said they were. I liked it so much in fact that I took another literature class instead of differential equations. Ok, ok. So maybe I really didn't want to take DiffEq in the first place. The whole point is I grew to appreciate literature in a way that I'm sure my high school teacher wouldn't have believed possible. -- Benny Remove your rose colored glasses before e-mailing me Back to top Liz Albin Guest Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:51:09 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: why one should read Shakespeare instead of watching wahtever was the at his local movie theatre or on his DVD player Er, Shakespear should be seen rather than read, but otherwise I agree. -- liz Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Fri Oct 17, 2003 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Benny Hill wrote: Quote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:51:09 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: A student in an "advanced" high school English class which I was teaching was telling me that movies were much more important than literature, and he really couldn't see why he had to read literature but his parents were making him take the advance course anyway. This was an "advanced" student and he couldn't fathom why one should read Shakespeare instead of watching wahtever was the at his local movie theatre or on his DVD player. Imagine then what the "non-advanced" students are like. If it makes you feel any better Edward, I could easily have been that advanced student. When I was in high school I had no desire to read anything more challenging or meaningful than the latest sci-fi/fantasy books from my favorite authors. It's not so much the desire of that student or you which I am criticizing, but the inability of educators to want to teach students any better and enlighten them. In today's educational systems, whether high school, college, or whatever, dumbing down knowledge into a mere utility for "getting a job" and "making an easy life for oneself" is the purpose of teaching, rather than one of knowledge and an understanding of the truths of reality. I add the dumbing down of science, mathematics, history, geography et al. to my experiences about the dumbing down of arts and literature. Quote: However, after taking a literature class in college (and possibly growing up a little bit ) I realized that Shakespeare, Lord Byron, et. al. were every bit as interesting as my old high school english teacher said they were. I liked it so much in fact that I took another literature class instead of differential equations. Ok, ok. So maybe I really didn't want to take DiffEq in the first place. The whole point is I grew to appreciate literature in a way that I'm sure my high school teacher wouldn't have believed possible. I am glad to hear that. But I think that fewer and fewer teachers, giving the way educational systems are run today, will stand up for knowledge as a means and an end itself to a happier and deeper understanding of life, as opposed to the utilitarian purposes to which knowledge is being used and taught today. That, in the long run, is very sad. Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:28 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Liz Albin wrote: Quote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 18:51:09 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: why one should read Shakespeare instead of watching wahtever was the at his local movie theatre or on his DVD player Er, Shakespear should be seen rather than read, but otherwise I agree. Shakespeare, although some writers previous to the 20th century would write Shakespere, perhaps not incorrectly for their era's understanding of the spelling. I agree that Shakespeare's plays need to be seen as performed on the stage, but often it takes the slowness of a reading to catch subtleties of language and meaning which one does not understand during the performance of a play because one doesn't have the time to take it all in. So I still prefer the idea that one can read the plays for all their meanings and subtleties of imagery, and also enjoy them as performed works. Back to top Liz Albin Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:28:49 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: So I still prefer the idea that one can read the plays for all their meanings and subtleties of imagery, and also enjoy them as performed works. I don't think one can, at least partly because the subtlety or artistry only comes out on stage. Something like Henry V is a good example. Iffy characterization, woeful politics and not much poetry -- and yet -- well I've seen at least 5 different productions of it, all of which worked. -- liz Back to top Liz Albin Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 12:55 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:52:56 -0400, Liz Albin wrote: Quote: on stage or in movies, but in performance -- liz Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:17 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Liz Albin wrote: Quote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 20:28:49 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: So I still prefer the idea that one can read the plays for all their meanings and subtleties of imagery, and also enjoy them as performed works. I don't think one can, at least partly because the subtlety or artistry only comes out on stage. Something like Henry V is a good example. Iffy characterization, woeful politics and not much poetry -- and yet -- well I've seen at least 5 different productions of it, all of which worked. I couldn't disagree with you more. Please trying reading "Henry V" again. Much of the poetry of it is magnificent, and the wooing of Catherine by Henry is one of magnificent imagery and subtlety and an absolute triumph of language, thought, expression, passion, and love. I think you are completely wrong also in your "Iffy characterization". Falstaff, Henry himself, the many denizens of Falstaff's "gang" of cutthroats and conmen. If this is truly "Iffy characterization" then all literature is a sham since few, if any, other artists have ever created anything better. As far as woeful politics, Shakespeare didn't care about politics, he cared about individual life. He wasn't interested in justifying the inavsion but understanding the dramatic acts of its protagonists. Don't try to put Shakespeare in the goody-goody school of current literary critical abortion. He stands well outside that form of stupidity. Literature is interested in truth, not moral simplicity. I agree from one point of view that the politics are woeful, since the English had little cause or reason to invade France, and Henry V drummed up the cause mainly to further his own ambitions. But at least, in the play, he went and fought and risked his life, and gave drama and meaning to his own actions, whereas George II sits safely and watches others die for him and the even greater wealth of his already rich friends. Back to top Liz Albin Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:25 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:17:05 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: I couldn't disagree with you more. Please trying reading "Henry V" again I've read it within the past 3 years. Quote: magnificent, and the wooing of Catherine by Henry is one of magnificent imagery and subtlety and an absolute triumph of language, thought, expression, passion, and love. Er matter of taste. I'm afraid I must disagree here, as it was precisely this of which I was thinking. Katharine is a generic bimbo, and the courtship is only slightly more plausible than Richard's of Anne Neville in Richard III. Quote: I think you are completely wrong also in your "Iffy characterization". Falstaff, Henry himself, the many denizens of Falstaff's "gang" of cutthroats and conmen. All of whom have diminished since Henry IV, although admittedly not to the caricatured extent of Merry Wives. Quote: As far as woeful politics, Shakespeare didn't care about politics, he cared about individual life. He wasn't interested in justifying the inavsion but understanding the dramatic acts of its protagonists. No, "justifying" would imply he saw something wrong in the invasion) Quote: George II ?? There were no Georges on the English throne for another hundred years, and none ever on the French. -- liz Back to top JunkMail Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:29 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Quote: Soon popular music will be declared much more vital to people's understanding than Mozart and Bach, and no doubt adverisements will be declared more interesting than Rembrandt, Vermeer, and Monet. One of the electives at the college I attend is modern music I actually took that class. I found out it was music from the 1950's to present day. Problem is that most employers find 4 year degree better than 2 year tech degree. The colleges require that you are a "well rounded" individual and thus require you to take a bunch of electives. Most students just take the easiest classes for there electives to get there GPA up which also looks good on resumes since you would just list your GPA and not all the electives you took. I even took a power walking and jogging class for my personal wellness elective. Can you imagine they even have badmitten (not sure on spelling). Another thing I have noticed about the college that I attend is that every semester someone comes into the class and asks the students to review the professors job performance. Better reviews mean higher pay and a shot out tenure. If a student is doing poorly in a class (getting a F, D, or C) they usually give the professor a poor review. Since professors have incentives to get better reviews I think they tend to give students higher grades then they use to say 20 years ago when student reviews had no impact on professors pay, tenure, etc. just my 2 cents worth. Back to top Benny Hill Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 1:49 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 19:59:40 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: It's not so much the desire of that student or you which I am criticizing, but the inability of educators to want to teach students any better and enlighten them. Hi Edward, I definitely wasn't taking that as a criticism of me. I too feel that the whole American educational system is going down the drain. My response to you was more to try and lift my own spirits than yours I'm afraid. My daughter turned 10 this week and I hate to think about what high school is going to be like for her. -- Benny Remove your rose colored glasses before e-mailing me Back to top Ed Mulroy [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 2:19 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses What was your major? They sure didn't handle electives that way at Villanova. Each of us was assigned an "advisor". The electives you could take were chosen from those which your advisor said you were allowed to take. For instance, one of my electives was modeling potassium transport through nerve walls. Another was using Kalman filtering and a state space model to control a distillation process (with a "hybrid computer" - ever heard of one of those)? Modern music would have been fun. .. Ed Quote: JunkMail wrote in message news:3f909792$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Back to top Edward Diener Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 4:08 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses Liz Albin wrote: Quote: On Fri, 17 Oct 2003 21:17:05 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: I couldn't disagree with you more. Please trying reading "Henry V" again I've read it within the past 3 years. magnificent, and the wooing of Catherine by Henry is one of magnificent imagery and subtlety and an absolute triumph of language, thought, expression, passion, and love. Er matter of taste. I'm afraid I must disagree here, as it was precisely this of which I was thinking. Katharine is a generic bimbo, and the courtship is only slightly more plausible than Richard's of Anne Neville in Richard III. I think you are completely wrong also in your "Iffy characterization". Falstaff, Henry himself, the many denizens of Falstaff's "gang" of cutthroats and conmen. All of whom have diminished since Henry IV, although admittedly not to the caricatured extent of Merry Wives. As far as woeful politics, Shakespeare didn't care about politics, he cared about individual life. He wasn't interested in justifying the inavsion but understanding the dramatic acts of its protagonists. No, "justifying" would imply he saw something wrong in the invasion) Regarding all your comments, you are not thinking in terms of literature but in terms of moral platitudes, by which you are forming your literary judgments; "Katharine is a generic bimbo,". "the courtship is only slightly more plausible...", "All of whom have diminished", "No, 'justifying' would imply he saw something wrong in the invasion". I do understand from your remarks why you think "subtlety or artistry only comes out on stage", and I can only say, without meaning to sound condescending or snobbish, that I am truly sorry that you see literary artistry in such easy terms because it is far more complex than you appear to believe. Quote: George II ?? There were no Georges on the English throne for another hundred years, and none ever on the French. The George II to which I was referring is currently on the American "throne", and the situation to which I was referring is a personal one not a political one. Back to top Liz Albin Guest Posted: Sat Oct 18, 2003 5:28 am    Post subject: Re: Computer Courses On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 00:08:40 -0400, Edward Diener wrote: Quote: Regarding all your comments, you are not thinking in terms of literature but in terms of moral platitudes, by which you are forming your literary judgments; "Katharine is a generic bimbo,". "the courtship is only slightly more plausible...", "All of whom have diminished", "No, 'justifying' would imply he saw something wrong in the invasion". Oh dear. Perhaps I should have elaborated. Katharine is not well rounded or interesting (certainly not when compared to say -- Rosalind), and Henry's courtship of her is perfunctory. The richness of characterisation of Falstaff, Pistole etc in Henry IV does diminsh (IMO obviously) in Henry V and Merry Wives, but apparently we disagree Quote: I do understand from your remarks why you think "subtlety or artistry only comes out on stage", and I can only say, without meaning to sound condescending or snobbish, that I am truly sorry that you see literary artistry in such easy terms because it is far more complex than you appear to believe. This, btw, is not merely my philistine opinion, but is shared by a fair number of teachers and actors. However, my distaste for Henry V as poetry actually says very little about my sensibilities as a whole, please don't generalize from a single example. Quote: The George II to which I was referring is currently on the American "throne", I didn't want to jump to any conclusions. Thank you for clarifying. -- liz Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.