BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  December !5th statement - is it official?          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message David Cameron Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 1:15 am    Post subject: December !5th statement - is it official? We are all expecting an official statement on the future of BCB from Borland on or before the 15th of December of this year. I have looked through the newsgroup archives on this, and this statement seemed to originate (according to members of this newsgroup) from the last Borcon. Has anybody found info on this via the Borland website, or any link you you could give, regarding a Borland employee stateing this in writing (newsgroup message, website info, or otherwise)? TIA, Dave Back to top Paul Gustavson Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 3:16 am    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? Quote: Has anybody found info on this via the Borland website, or any link you you could give, regarding a Borland employee stateing this in writing (newsgroup message, website info, or otherwise)? Yes. http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/Borland_Response_To_Cover_Letter.pdf Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 5:19 am    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? "David Cameron" <nomail (AT) to (DOT) me> wrote Quote: I have looked through the newsgroup archives on this, and this statement seemed to originate (according to members of this newsgroup) from the last Borcon. Correct. It came directly from the executives' collective mouths during the "C++ Meet the Team" session. Quote: Has anybody found info on this via the Borland website It is not posted on the website. Quote: or any link you you could give, regarding a Borland employee stateing this in writing (newsgroup message, website info, or otherwise)? None that I know of. Gambit Back to top Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 2:54 pm    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? David Cameron wrote: Quote: Has anybody found info on this via the Borland website, or any link you you could give, regarding a Borland employee stateing this in writing (newsgroup message, website info, or otherwise)? As others have stated, the answer to your question is perhaps no, but I'm not sure it matters. If you're implying that the commitment is somehow less strong because it isn't in writing, I think you're wrong. First, it was stated by the entire BCB management food chain in front of 50 to 100 independent witnesses. Second, it's on audio tape which was ripped to .WAV and a link posted here (with Borland's permission). Third, it was restated in an email from George Paolini to Paul Gustavson which Paul was given permission to make public (this arguably counts as "in writing" but perhaps not in the ways you listed). The commitment is "out there" and there's no denying it. Furthermore, consider the open letter fiasco of a year ago. That commitment was in writing, and it didn't seem to help much. The real question isn't whether it's in writing, oral, based on a wink and a handshake, sent telepathically, or whatever. The issue is how strong is the commitment? Time will tell, but it looks like this time there will be an answer about BCB. -- Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Back to top David Cameron Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 4:00 pm    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? "Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB]" <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> wrote Quote: David Cameron wrote: Has anybody found info on this via the Borland website, or any link you you could give, regarding a Borland employee stateing this in writing (newsgroup message, website info, or otherwise)? As others have stated, the answer to your question is perhaps no, but I'm not sure it matters. If you're implying that the commitment is somehow less strong because it isn't in writing, I think you're wrong. First, it was stated by the entire BCB management food chain in front of 50 to 100 independent witnesses. Second, it's on audio tape which was ripped to .WAV and a link posted here (with Borland's permission). Third, it was restated in an email from George Paolini to Paul Gustavson which Paul was given permission to make public (this arguably counts as "in writing" but perhaps not in the ways you listed). The commitment is "out there" and there's no denying it. Furthermore, consider the open letter fiasco of a year ago. That commitment was in writing, and it didn't seem to help much. The real question isn't whether it's in writing, oral, based on a wink and a handshake, sent telepathically, or whatever. The issue is how strong is the commitment? Time will tell, but it looks like this time there will be an answer about BCB. Thanks for the replies everyone. Gillmer, Pauls link seems OK. I assume Paul asked the Borland employee, who sent the reply, for permission to publish it. If that is the case, it is "official " enough for me. Cheers, Dave Back to top Leo Saguisag (Borland) Guest Posted: Sat Nov 13, 2004 9:30 pm    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? David Cameron wrote: Quote: Gillmer, Pauls link seems OK. I assume Paul asked the Borland employee, who sent the reply, for permission to publish it. If that is the case, it is "official " enough for me. As far as I know, permission to publish George Paolini's reply to Paul Gustavson was asked for and granted. -- Leo Saguisag Delphi l10n engineer About the Borland newsgroups: http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ "Luke, you're going to find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." -- Obi-Wan Kenobi (Return Of The Jedi) Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 1:11 am    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? Gillmer, Suppose there is an open letter. There are still a couple of possibilities that are consistent with past Borland behavior: 1) The letter may be sufficiently qualified and ambiguous that no real commitment will be found in it even as it does not officially announce the continued dead of BCB. 2) The letter may make promises that just will not be fulfilled. Hey, remember that letter to C++ customers back in, what, the spring or summer of 2002 where Borland said they understood our need for timely fixes? Well, BCBX has not produced timely BCBX fixes. It has had some serious bugs from its initial release that have gone unfixed. Some fixes are supposedly now in the pipeline but will come well over a year after the v1.0 release. Same old, same old. I base my expectations on past behavior. Based on past Borland behavior toward C++ customers I have low expectations. Either BCB stays dead or the next version is still pretty buggy or the next version doesn't make it out the door till sime time in 2006 or 2007. I'm hoping for a buggy next version of BCB that makes it out the door in the 4th quarter of 2005. But I'm not optimistic about that possibility. Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: Quote: Furthermore, consider the open letter fiasco of a year ago. That commitment was in writing, and it didn't seem to help much. The real question isn't whether it's in writing, oral, based on a wink and a handshake, sent telepathically, or whatever. The issue is how strong is the commitment? Time will tell, but it looks like this time there will be an answer about BCB. Back to top Doychin Bondzhev Guest Posted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: December !5th statement - is it official? If you feeel that somthing was worng with Borland during the last few years I'm sure there is an explanation. I personally think that all these delays for the open letter were coused mostly from the changes that happened in the company management and the changes in the direction. So new managmenet is now in place. Looks like they already decided where they want to go so now they just need to decide how this new C++Builder will fit into their vision for the SDO and other stuff. Also they have to see what income it will produce. All this is my personal feeeling and I belive in Borland that they will take the right decision. Doychin "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:4196b05a$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Gillmer, Suppose there is an open letter. There are still a couple of possibilities that are consistent with past Borland behavior: 1) The letter may be sufficiently qualified and ambiguous that no real commitment will be found in it even as it does not officially announce the continued dead of BCB. 2) The letter may make promises that just will not be fulfilled. Hey, remember that letter to C++ customers back in, what, the spring or summer of 2002 where Borland said they understood our need for timely fixes? Well, BCBX has not produced timely BCBX fixes. It has had some serious bugs from its initial release that have gone unfixed. Some fixes are supposedly now in the pipeline but will come well over a year after the v1.0 release. Same old, same old. I base my expectations on past behavior. Based on past Borland behavior toward C++ customers I have low expectations. Either BCB stays dead or the next version is still pretty buggy or the next version doesn't make it out the door till sime time in 2006 or 2007. I'm hoping for a buggy next version of BCB that makes it out the door in the 4th quarter of 2005. But I'm not optimistic about that possibility. Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: Furthermore, consider the open letter fiasco of a year ago. That commitment was in writing, and it didn't seem to help much. The real question isn't whether it's in writing, oral, based on a wink and a handshake, sent telepathically, or whatever. The issue is how strong is the commitment? Time will tell, but it looks like this time there will be an answer about BCB. 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