BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Paul Gustavson Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 12:22 pm    Post subject: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Interesting developments at EKON 9 in Germany regarding the future of Delphi (and C++). Unfortunately I'm not there to BLOG "live" about it, but others were. You can find links here... http://tinyurl.com/8p7sz Back to top Hendrik Schober Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Paul Gustavson <pgustavREMOVECAPS (AT) simventions (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Interesting developments at EKON 9 in Germany regarding the future of Delphi (and C++). Unfortunately I'm not there to BLOG "live" about it, but others were. You can find links here... http://tinyurl.com/8p7sz Shortcut to what most here might be interested in: http://www.dpexperte.de/blog/EKON9/Keynote/004_l.jpg Schobi -- [email]SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de[/email] is never read I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org "Coming back to where you started is not the same as never leaving" Terry Pratchett Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 2:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Hendrik Schober wrote: Quote: Paul Gustavson <pgustavREMOVECAPS (AT) simventions (DOT) com> wrote: Interesting developments at EKON 9 in Germany regarding the future of Delphi (and C++). Unfortunately I'm not there to BLOG "live" about it, but others were. You can find links here... http://tinyurl.com/8p7sz Shortcut to what most here might be interested in: http://www.dpexperte.de/blog/EKON9/Keynote/004_l.jpg Schobi Looks like everyone should rush right out and get Dexter -- it's the only one that will have "Performance and Quality"... David Erbas-White P.S. I find it almost pathetic that the marketing group at Borland knows their reputation for quality has sunk so low that they had to add that phrase as one of the selling points of the upcoming release, yet despite the much vaunted 'new openness' and 'better customer support', that neither have actually come to pass in regards to BCB. Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap At 14:22:20, 27.09.2005, Paul Gustavson wrote: Quote: Interesting developments at EKON 9 in Germany regarding the future of Delphi (and C++). Unfortunately I'm not there to BLOG "live" about it, but others were. You can find links here... http://tinyurl.com/8p7sz Very interesting. So there will be 64 bit .NET first, and then native Win64. Also interesting that there will be a VCL for Avalon. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "C combines all the power of assembly language with the ease of use of assembly language" -- trad Back to top Robby Tanner Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap What's ECO? "Hendrik Schober" <SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de> wrote Quote: Paul Gustavson <pgustavREMOVECAPS (AT) simventions (DOT) com> wrote: Interesting developments at EKON 9 in Germany regarding the future of Delphi (and C++). Unfortunately I'm not there to BLOG "live" about it, but others were. You can find links here... http://tinyurl.com/8p7sz Shortcut to what most here might be interested in: http://www.dpexperte.de/blog/EKON9/Keynote/004_l.jpg Back to top Alex Bakaev [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 3:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: P.S. I find it almost pathetic that the marketing group at Borland knows their reputation for quality has sunk so low that they had to add that phrase as one of the selling points of the upcoming release, yet despite the much vaunted 'new openness' and 'better customer support', that neither have actually come to pass in regards to BCB. I find it as a first step in the healing process. Your scepticism is understandable, but what's wrong with Borland promising a high quality product? Also, it's rather unrealistic to expect BCB 6 updates. As someone who's always been vocal about state of affairs of BCB, maybe you should apply for the FT of DeXter? ..a Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Quote: I find it as a first step in the healing process. Your scepticism is understandable, but what's wrong with Borland promising a high quality product? Also, it's rather unrealistic to expect BCB 6 updates. Alex, I'm going to save this post in the event that you post "it's rather unrealistic to expect Dexter updates" at some time in the future <g> Personally, I think borland would have gone a long way to improving customer relations if they would have fixed some of the more glaring BCB bugs while trying to sell people Dexter. Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote: Quote: David Erbas-White wrote: P.S. I find it almost pathetic that the marketing group at Borland knows their reputation for quality has sunk so low that they had to add that phrase as one of the selling points of the upcoming release, yet despite the much vaunted 'new openness' and 'better customer support', that neither have actually come to pass in regards to BCB. I find it as a first step in the healing process. Your scepticism is understandable, but what's wrong with Borland promising a high quality product? Also, it's rather unrealistic to expect BCB 6 updates. Because it's not the first time they've taken this 'first step'. Nor is it the first time they've promised a 'high quality product'. And I'm not concerned (overly) with BCB6 updates at this point, but the overall Borland customer service has NOT improved for BCB users, nor has the marketing (pretend you're a newcomer to Borland and try and buy a copy of BCB -- have fun!). Quote: As someone who's always been vocal about state of affairs of BCB, maybe you should apply for the FT of DeXter? Because Borland out-and-out lies about the field tests. Because I was a beta-tester for CBX, and the NDA for that stated quite clearly that when the product was released, that people were free to discuss their experiences -- however, due to the abysmal failure of the product (my opinion), when they released the product, they unilaterally changed, ex post facto, the NDA to state that people could NEVER discuss their experiences during the beta test. Because letters to John Kaster regarding this were met with 'take it up with legal', but the legal department NEVER ONCE would even ACKNOWLEDGE inquiries about the problem. BTW, this is the first time I've ever publically discussed this issue, so you can't claim I've been 'slamming' them for it. I'm disgusted with how Borland treats its customers -- but it's like a bad marriage. I have my primary client who I've designed some software for using BCB (I talked him into it, after all) who refuses to change over to something else until business 'forces' him to, so I'm stuck with maintaining it in BCB. Thus, despite my (at this point) desire to simply leave the bad taste of Borland support behind me, I have no options. David Erbas-White Quote: .a Back to top Alex Bakaev [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Duane Hebert wrote: Quote: Alex, I'm going to save this post in the event that you post "it's rather unrealistic to expect Dexter updates" at some time in the future That wouldn't be too surprising. Quote: Personally, I think borland would have gone a long way to improving customer relations if they would have fixed some of the more glaring BCB bugs while trying to sell people Dexter. Yes, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. Who knows, maybe BCB6 users will get a sweet upgrade deal? ..a Back to top Alex Bakaev [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: Because it's not the first time they've taken this 'first step'. Nor is it the first time they've promised a 'high quality product'. And I'm You have a point here. Quote: Because Borland out-and-out lies about the field tests. Because I was a ? Quote: beta-tester for CBX, and the NDA for that stated quite clearly that when the product was released, that people were free to discuss their experiences -- however, due to the abysmal failure of the product (my It's been a while since I saw FT NDA, but my recollection is that it always stated that people were not allowed to discuss the beta or admit they were on one. Quote: opinion), when they released the product, they unilaterally changed, ex post facto, the NDA to state that people could NEVER discuss their experiences during the beta test. Because letters to John Kaster Can't comment on that, but see above. Quote: regarding this were met with 'take it up with legal', but the legal department NEVER ONCE would even ACKNOWLEDGE inquiries about the Let's hope they don'g get "interested" now <g> Quote: problem. BTW, this is the first time I've ever publically discussed this issue, so you can't claim I've been 'slamming' them for it. What makes you think I will? Quote: I'm disgusted with how Borland treats its customers -- but it's like a Let me assure you that the awareness of this at Borland is very high. ..a Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote: Quote: problem. BTW, this is the first time I've ever publically discussed this issue, so you can't claim I've been 'slamming' them for it. What makes you think I will? It was meant as a 'generic' you, and I should have been clearer -- the usual suspects (IMHO) will jump in with 'why are you here if you don't like Borland', etc. The funny thing is that I've been with Borland since CP/M Turbo Pascal days, evangelized them to every company I had been at, but Borland managed to take all that positive energy (mine and others) and turn it around 180 degrees. Quote: I'm disgusted with how Borland treats its customers -- but it's like a Let me assure you that the awareness of this at Borland is very high. .a You have no idea how disgusted I am with statements like that. I truly believe you (the specific and generic you) can't comprehend it. Borland is like a 'batterer' who is 'aware' that he is causing harm, but does NOTHING to stop it or make amends. As a minor example, all throughout the CBX fiasco, folks (including myself) were asking if they could cross-grade to Delphi to allow continued use of the VCL. Not only was that not changed (at that time), but the pleas were blatantly ignored. Note: this wasn't even a case of begging for the bug fixes that they had every right to expect -- this was a case of acknowledging that they were throwing in the towel with BCB, but trying to salvage SOMETHING from it. This is just BASIC common sense and customer service. But those words apparently mean nothing to Borland management. David Erbas-White Back to top Alex Bakaev [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: since CP/M Turbo Pascal days, evangelized them to every company I had been at, but Borland managed to take all that positive energy (mine and others) and turn it around 180 degrees. Then you know how I feel. Quote: You have no idea how disgusted I am with statements like that. I truly believe you (the specific and generic you) can't comprehend it. Borland Oh, let me assure you I can <g>. Quote: is like a 'batterer' who is 'aware' that he is causing harm, but does NOTHING to stop it or make amends. Nothing that is visible to the outside world. Of course, the fact that awareness is high doesn't mean things will change. I just hope they will. I have solid facts I base my hope on. Quote: As a minor example, all throughout the CBX fiasco, folks (including myself) were asking if they could cross-grade to Delphi to allow continued use of the VCL. Not only was that not changed (at that time), but the pleas were blatantly ignored. Note: this wasn't even a case of Please, email Scott Arnold. He answers emails (as evidenced by http://delphi-notes.blogspot.com/ ) ..a Back to top Andre Kaufmann Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 5:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Alex Bakaev [TeamB] wrote: Quote: Duane Hebert wrote: [...] Yes, that would be perfect. Unfortunately, we don't live in a perfect world. Who knows, maybe BCB6 users will get a sweet upgrade deal? I'd like to add the CBX users - aehm - owners to the potential upgrade deal. Quote: .a Andre Back to top Alex Bakaev [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Andre Kaufmann wrote: Quote: I'd like to add the CBX users - aehm - owners to the potential upgrade deal. Yes, that would be good. Back to top Robby Tanner Guest Posted: Tue Sep 27, 2005 8:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi (and C++) Roadmap Why not just use Delphi for apps you would normally build with C++? Has that been debated before or suggested, even by Borland itself? It would leave Borland only one RAD tool to support (well, there's the Jave one I guess) and you'd have updates on a much more frequent basis. I'm sure it's a lot easier for C programmers to learn Pascal then the other way around. Rob "Alex Bakaev [TeamB]" <zxtt (AT) att (DOT) net> wrote Quote: David Erbas-White wrote: since CP/M Turbo Pascal days, evangelized them to every company I had been at, but Borland managed to take all that positive energy (mine and others) and turn it around 180 degrees. Then you know how I feel. You have no idea how disgusted I am with statements like that. I truly believe you (the specific and generic you) can't comprehend it. Borland Oh, let me assure you I can <g>. is like a 'batterer' who is 'aware' that he is causing harm, but does NOTHING to stop it or make amends. Nothing that is visible to the outside world. Of course, the fact that awareness is high doesn't mean things will change. I just hope they will. I have solid facts I base my hope on. As a minor example, all throughout the CBX fiasco, folks (including myself) were asking if they could cross-grade to Delphi to allow continued use of the VCL. Not only was that not changed (at that time), but the pleas were blatantly ignored. Note: this wasn't even a case of Please, email Scott Arnold. 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