BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Will DeWitt Jr. Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Thomas Miller asked for a reminder after the 7.1 patch was released. =) If you're interested in seeing a 64-bit native code Delphi compiler, please feel free to move your votes to QC 7324-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use this as an opportunity to discuss the merits of 64-bit native compilation too. =) Will -- Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 Back to top David Smith Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: Quote: This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use I try to understand that some people need a native 64-bit compiler, but why on earth would a native IDE be needed? Or have I misunderstood that you want Borland to have a different 64-bit IDE product, when Galileo could run in that environment too? That will of course never happen. David Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:13 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Thanks for the reminder. Unfortunately, I only had two votes free after the 7.1. Kind of disappointing since most of my votes are for Metadata bugs in dbExpress drivers. I will find out soon if this was an over sight (they got fixed but not reported) or if they just didn't fix it. It currently is the #1 item for Delphi. Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: Quote: Thomas Miller asked for a reminder after the 7.1 patch was released. =) If you're interested in seeing a 64-bit native code Delphi compiler, please feel free to move your votes to QC 7324-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use this as an opportunity to discuss the merits of 64-bit native compilation too. =) Will -- Thomas Miller Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:16 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Since the IDE is mostly written in Delphi (at least at one time it was), it shouldn't be that hard to compile Delphi IDE with Delphi AMD 64. I also agree that I am not sure how much benefit this will serve. David Smith wrote: Quote: Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use I try to understand that some people need a native 64-bit compiler, but why on earth would a native IDE be needed? Or have I misunderstood that you want Borland to have a different 64-bit IDE product, when Galileo could run in that environment too? That will of course never happen. David -- Thomas Miller Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Kostya Poukhov Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:18 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Quote: I also agree that I am not sure how much benefit this will serve. Having the most out of platform probably. Kostya Back to top zedd Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:50 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Quote: I also agree that I am not sure how much benefit this will serve. Prove that their compiler works and really offer full Win64 support, and that you don't have to use other languages because of compiler and libraries limitations (like is the case for CBX). It's very important that developpers eat their own food, that's the first step to quality, and probably the most important one. Z Back to top Atmapuri Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 6:15 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Hi! A native 64 bit compiler really hides some of the more important issues. Compiler optimizations. People have compared Delphi and other compilers and general conclusion was: "Yeah its not bad." Now check this out. Delphi is compiler is missing a lot features offered by Intel Fortran/C++ compilers. Virtually no real compiler research &development (performance wise) has been done by Borland in last 10 years. Here is where the rest of the world is standing: 1.) Function inlining. 2.) loop transformation and data prefetching. Includes vectorization of the loops, otherwise data prefetching cant be done. 3.) Generates code for P2, P3 and P4. You can specify that the exe would include code for all or only for some of the CPU's. The code generation is specific per unit. The execution path is determined when the app is started. 4.) Multithreading is a matter of a compiler switch. You mark the option and the compiler generates code that can execute on the specified number of CPU's in paralell. 5.) Optimization with regard to CPU cache size in combination with vectorization. 6.) "Interprocedural optimization (IPO) enables multi-file inlining, constant propagation, code placement (i.e. function layout), and data placement. It also provides information about parameters that are aliased, modified, or referenced across call sites." 7.) Profile Guided Optimization. 8.) By default, the Intel compiler converts division operations into reciprocal multiply operations, But then again, if Intel someday decides to release an IL compiler with this features, allows to turn off range checking on records objects and arrays and completely disables all the "security" stuff, heck the .NET may just be the way to go. Regards! Atmapuri Back to top madshi (Mathias Rauen) Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 8:37 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? I'd be satisfied with just a 64bit compiler&linker, as long as it works reliably. Don't care whether the IDE is running in 32 or 64bit. -- www.madshi.net high quality low level Delphi components extended exception handling API hooking, DLL injection Back to top Oliver Townshend Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 12:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Quote: 3.) Generates code for P2, P3 and P4. You can specify that the exe would include code for all or only for some of the CPU's. The code generation is specific per unit. The execution path is determined when the app is started. Which would make your application much bigger. And people here complain when their hello world application gets 1K bigger. Quote: 4.) Multithreading is a matter of a compiler switch. You mark the option and the compiler generates code that can execute on the specified number of CPU's in paralell. Boy, you would have to genrerate a lot of different exes and bpls to keep all of your clients happy. Quote: 5.) Optimization with regard to CPU cache size in combination with vectorization. These are all very specific optimization. You have to know what your target box is before there is any point in compiling. Oliver Back to top Kevin Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: Quote: This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use this as an opportunity to discuss the merits of 64-bit native compilation too. =) I would like to see a Delphi AMD64 compiler but only if it has an option to produce 32-bit bootstrapping code that would launch a 32-bit version when run on systems that don't support 64-bit. i.e. I don't want the hassle of deploying two different executables for two different platforms both running Windows. The one advantage with .NET is that it should allow IL to execute on 32-bit and 64-bit systems without needing two different binaries. To me this is the one big negative working against Borland producing a native 64-bit compiler. Cheers, Kevin. Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Kevin wrote: Quote: Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: This report proposes a compiler that targets AMD64 / IA32e (EM64T) and has full RTL/VCL support as well as a native IDE. You could also use this as an opportunity to discuss the merits of 64-bit native compilation too. =) I would like to see a Delphi AMD64 compiler but only if it has an option to produce 32-bit bootstrapping code that would launch a 32-bit version when run on systems that don't support 64-bit. i.e. I don't want the hassle of deploying two different executables for two different platforms both running Windows. The one advantage with .NET is that it should allow IL to execute on 32-bit and 64-bit systems without needing two different binaries. To me this is the one big negative working against Borland producing a native 64-bit compiler. Cheers, Kevin. I disagree completely. 64 bit is needed for server software, like middle ware. If you are doing a utility, word processor, etc, it won't benefit much at all with 64 bit. -- Thomas Miller Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Hermann Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? "David Smith" <david (AT) nowhere (DOT) com> ??????:40a40095$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: I try to understand that some people need a native 64-bit compiler, but why on earth would a native IDE be needed? Do you think a 32-bit IDE can import 64-bit components and/or debug 64-bit apps? regards Hermann Back to top Hermann Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? "David Smith" <david (AT) nowhere (DOT) com> ??????:40a40095$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: I try to understand that some people need a native 64-bit compiler, but why on earth would a native IDE be needed? Do you think a 32-bit IDE can import 64-bit components and/or debug 64-bit apps? regards Hermann Back to top Will DeWitt Jr. Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? David Smith wrote: Quote: I try to understand that some people need a native 64-bit compiler, but why on earth would a native IDE be needed? "Eating your own dogfood". If bugs plague the compiler they'll be magnified by the IDE (so the effort to correct them will be doubly so, since it'll fix two defects in one-- one in the IDE and one in the compiler itself). Will -- Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 Back to top Kostya Poukhov Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for Win64 / AMD64? Quote: I disagree completely. 64 bit is needed for server software, like middle ware. If you are doing a utility, word processor, etc, it won't benefit much at all with 64 bit. And we would never need more the 640K of RAM <g>. There are lots of types applications (not servers) that'd greatly benefit from 64 bit and increased RAM. If you happen to work only with word processors it does not mean that the rest of the world does the same Kostya Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next Page 1 of 5   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.