BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Delphi's for CE?          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Bryce K. Nielsen Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Delphi's for CE? What are the avenues for using Delphi on WindowsCE (or is it WindowsCF? I always get that mixed up). John Kaster recently showcased something that sounded like it wouldn't be available until D2007. What/when should I be expecting this, and will it be DotNet only or more native? And how x-platform will the code be? (i.e. can I use same code across Win32 and WinCE or will I have two separate projects?). -BKN Back to top John Jacobson Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? "Bryce K. Nielsen" <bryce (AT) sysonyx (DOT) com> wrote in message <441e3691$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com> Quote: What are the avenues for using Delphi on WindowsCE (or is it WindowsCF? I always get that mixed up). John Kaster recently showcased something that sounded like it wouldn't be available until D2007. What/when should I be expecting this, and will it be DotNet only or more native? And how x-platform will the code be? (i.e. can I use same code across Win32 and WinCE or will I have two separate projects?). Recently here in SE Wisconsin, JK demoed D2006, and part of his demo was CF programming, using D2006 and third-party free add-ins available right now. One was CFBuild, which I think JED built. Can't remember the other one right now. -- ***Free Your Mind*** Posted with JSNewsreader Preview 0.9.4.2173 Back to top Dave Nottage [TeamB] Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Bryce K. Nielsen wrote: Quote: What are the avenues for using Delphi on WindowsCE (or is it WindowsCF? I always get that mixed up). John Kaster recently showcased something that sounded like it wouldn't be available until D2007. You can develop for CF with Delphi 2005 and BDS 2006. At present though there's no designer or debugger support built into the IDE. You can design with the IDE, but you need to do a bit of tweaking. Check out messages in the .delphi.dotnetPreview, and ..delphi.language.delphi.dotnet groups. Quote: What/when should I be expecting this, and will it be DotNet only or more native? ..NET only. Quote: And how x-platform will the code be? (i.e. can I use same code across Win32 and WinCE or will I have two separate projects?). I guess the above answers those questions <g> -- Dave Nottage [TeamB] Have questions?: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Want answers?: http://support.borland.com Back to top Robin Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Bryce K. Nielsen wrote: Quote: What are the avenues for using Delphi on WindowsCE (or is it WindowsCF? I always get that mixed up). John Kaster recently showcased something that sounded like it wouldn't be available until D2007. What/when should I be expecting this, and will it be DotNet only or more native? And how x-platform will the code be? (i.e. can I use same code across Win32 and WinCE or will I have two separate projects?). -BKN G'Day Bryce, I believe it is still called Windows CE. I believe they are looking to introduce CF support out-of-the-box in 2007. You can do it straight away however using D2005 or D2006. You need to install a few things like the Microsoft Compact Framework SDK, and JED's Compact Framework Build Helper. Writing for CF is .NET only and is much like designing regular .NET winforms except you have to watch your step because they have put the framework on a severe diet to reduce it for mobile devices. Many functions, properties etc are simply no longer there. Many of these intricacies are taken care of for you by the build helpers etc. I guess you could use much of your behind-the-scenes logic code in both a regular .net project (and thus, W32) and the CF one, but I am not sure I would recommend it. You want to reduce the size of your mobile code as much as humanly possible. And the user interface will be more different then I can put into words! You can however run a CF app front end on your regular PC but it will look, well, odd. (not to mention small...) I am currently working on a CF project in my somewhat limited spare time, and I am currently finding the hardest thing about it is choosing the best embedded DB for it. -- Robin. "He who treats the database as a flat-file repository of data is doomed to burn in Hell. It's true, I asked." - Dratz Back to top Jim Cooper Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: And how x-platform will the code be? Not very. Only your business logic will likely port anyway. You need to redesign most apps for PDA or phone style devices Cheers, Jim Cooper _____________________________________________ Jim Cooper jcooper (AT) tabdee (DOT) ltd.uk Skype : jim.cooper Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm _____________________________________________ Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: I am currently working on a CF project in my somewhat limited spare time, and I am currently finding the hardest thing about it is choosing the best embedded DB for it. SqlCE is ridiculously slow. I am going to try SQLite today but I suspect that will be just as bad (although at least smaller). The fastest thing I have seen is db4o, it was about 5 times faster, but there was something about it that I didn't like and couldn't quite put my finger on. -- Pete ==== Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, ECO extensions, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Michael Baytalsky Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: I am currently working on a CF project in my somewhat limited spare time, and I am currently finding the hardest thing about it is choosing the best embedded DB for it. Did you try Mimer? (Just curious, I'm not their rep ). Is it a requirement for you to have client & data/server on the device or can you have only client and connect to outside server? CF ADO providers are available for many databases. Did you consider using ADO.DataSet as a briefcase (save to XML or binary)? This way you won't have SQL, but it should be reasonably fast to search what little data you can store on a device. (BTW, what capacity are we talking about?) (I'm just asking and not suggesting , I never tried developing for CF, so I wonder what it takes and what should be considered). Regards, Michael Back to top Bryce K. Nielsen Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: Recently here in SE Wisconsin, JK demoed D2006, and part of his demo was CF programming, using D2006 and third-party free add-ins available right now. One was CFBuild, which I think JED built. Can't remember the other one right now. He did the same here in SLC as well, which made me prompt the questions. It seemed like there was going to be a bunch of great stuff available in the next version of Delphi, and it _sounded_ like it would be non DotNet, but I could be wrong there. That's one reason I was asking all this, trying to get caught up on what tools I'm familiar with that I can use to program for PDAs. -BKN Back to top Bryce K. Nielsen Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: I am currently working on a CF project in my somewhat limited spare time, and I am currently finding the hardest thing about it is choosing the best embedded DB for it. What have you chosen? One project I'm working on uses Firebird as an embedded DB for a desktop application. We're looking at the possibilities of making a PDA version of the application, so we're starting to research how to do this. One choice is going to be language to program in, and the other will be database to store data with. We're also considering having either a PDA add-on that synchs with the desktop version, or a PDA stand-alone without desktop version. -BKN Back to top Robin Guest Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Bryce K. Nielsen wrote: Quote: What have you chosen? One project I'm working on uses Firebird as an embedded DB for a desktop application. We're looking at the possibilities of making a PDA version of the application, so we're starting to research how to do this. One choice is going to be language to program in, and the other will be database to store data with. We're also considering having either a PDA add-on that synchs with the desktop version, or a PDA stand-alone without desktop version. Hi Bryce, I have not chosen one, no. A little (un-nameable) birdy tells me to be patient in this area and I might see something from a soon-to-be spun out company ;-p For the moment though, life must go on. So I have, for the first time ever created my application with proper classes and layers So only the data connection class knows HOW the data is retrieved. Thus, I can change it when ever I like. (Sure, this is probably normal to everyone else here but a first for me!) I started with db4o. Which I loved. It is an 'object' database. I am used to regular databases like Firebird, MSSQL etc so the easiest way to get used to it for me was to treat it like a searchable object stack. I am only going to need 3 tables on the mobile device so it suites me fine. However, It is only free if your application is to. (Booooooo!). As far as ease of use goes, it rocks. Anybody, even I, can use that one within 2 minutes of downloading it (and that includes mentally translating the C# example code into Delphi) I tried SQLite. Well, sort of. I have to admit I couldn't get it to work. After an hour of cursing, I tossed it. Very likely it was something I was doing wrong but at the end of the day I am a hobbiest and it ate up an hour of time I didn't have to start with. It was late, I got angry and decided my nice new Dell notebook didn't deserve my frustration . I might look into it again when I have a moment. My latest experiment was creating a mongrel database class of my own using XML to load/save to file, and loading search criterion into datatable(s) at run time. I didn't want the whole table because of memory concerns, and XML is slooooow, so I only retrieved what I needed to search. Plan was to then only fetch the whole record on individual demand. It seems to work, but isn't very impressive. I felt better for doing it though. (My data did not need to be encrypted or secure so being plain text in the XML was not an issue) I have looked at some others, but have not found any thing I like AND is free. If I were paying, I would have chosen db4o by now I think. They have .NET, Java and .NET CF versions. Along with a replication server which may be handy. I have had to put it down for a couple of days to do other things so I am very interested I hearing what others think and have tried. Bring on Firebird CE :-) -- Robin. "He who treats the database as a flat-file repository of data is doomed to burn in Hell. It's true, I asked." - Dratz Back to top Felipe Monteiro de Carval Guest Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 2:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Bryce K. Nielsen wrote: Quote: What are the avenues for using Delphi on WindowsCE (or is it WindowsCF? Are you talking about Windows CE for Pocket PC and Smartphones? If so, then Lazarus is already able to produce simple software for Windows CE. Free Pascal cross compiler for arm-wince and you can even debug via Active Sync. More details and screenshots here: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/index.php/Windows_CE_Interface And also software created with it will be able to recompile for Qtopia for linux-based PDAs in the future. To have full WinCE support we just need more coders or donations. thanks, Felipe Back to top Mike Margerum Guest Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 6:03 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi's for CE? Quote: SqlCE is ridiculously slow. I am going to try SQLite today but I suspect that will be just as bad (although at least smaller). The fastest thing I have seen is db4o, it was about 5 times faster, but there was something about it that I didn't like and couldn't quite put my finger on. The whole idea of using SQL on a device like that seems ridiculous to me. I'd go with something where you can just have indexes and do seeks. 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