BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  DevCo Luminaries Chat Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Edward Diener Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: DevCo Luminaries Chat The Borland employees and supporters speaking in the DevCo luminaries chat are in a world of their own. It is not the real world of software development, but rather an alternative universe where reality becomes so skewed that even the most biased viewpoint becomes part of that alternate reality as long as it supports Borland/DevCo. If this is truly the reality in which DevCo is going to go forward into the world of software development, they can hardly succeed IMO. Wake up from your dream, people! Take a good hard look at the actual world of software development which exists outside of Delphi. The world of software development is not the biased world of Borland/DevCo fanatics, the Borland "faithful", or the programmers for whom whatever Borland does must be good and wise. I have used Borland's C++ products for a long time in my career while using and keeping an open mind about other products by other companies also. It would be nice to think that Borland, or DevCo, will improve drastically and once again offer competition with Microsoft in the Windows development world and perhaps even offer good development tools for the Linux programming world, as well as first rate web development tools. But if the incredible back-slapping and off-the-wall comments that were in the DevCo luminaries chat are any real indication of the way DevCo actually views the programming world for Windows or Linux or the web, then I have little hope that DevCo will be anything more than what Borland has been in the last half-decade in its failures to face up to a reality it seems bent on ignoring. I have not written this with any animosity, but rather with a sadness that a group of developers and their friends can be so blind and obstinate in their blindness, and a hope that those developers who are part of DevCo will wake up. I have moved personally in my C++ development to VS 2005, for obvious reasons, but even if Borland had offered a highly compliant C++ compiler, or a C++ .NET implementation, or a Linux C++ RAD development environment, I might have continued with C++ Builder. In Java, despite a free Eclipse and Netbeans, if Borland had not offered less and priced themselves out of the individual Java market, I might have continued with JBuilder. If the idea is to ignore programming reality, as the DevCo Luminaries Chat makes all too evident, then I can honestly say that I do not think that DevCo will be around very long, while still wishing the best of luck to the programmers involved. But you need to wake up to the real world and get out of your unreal bubble. Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Edward Diener wrote: Edward, I haven't wasted my time listening to the replay. It astounds me that intellectual people find that switching to an 'audio only' format (i.e., podcasts, or posting an audio 'chat' instead of a transcript) is now the best way of transmitting information. I can read through a written transcript of a chat in about 1/100th of the time it would take me to listen to it -- and I have the advantage of skimming over the mundane salutations and get right to the meat of a question/answer. But more and more folks are finding 'podcasts' as the 'next new thing'... That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? I gather you're not happy with the response (<G>), but what was said that triggered your comments? David Erbas-White Back to top Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: They recognize that ONE person doing the transcription can save the labor of HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS of people ALL having to slog through the audio version of the chat. It's called "efficiency"... I just don't see why it's so much more efficient for you to read than to listen. To listen to the audio replay takes me one mouse click and I'm done. I can multitask while it plays. If you can explain how I can read it more efficiently than that, I'm all ears. Quote: P.S. Please note that I didn't "demand" that Borland, or anyone else, provide the transcript -- I pointed out that it wasn't that good a decision. I asked, POLITELY, if Edward would mind hitting the 'high points' of the things that had made him write his comments. Even if I had listened to the chat, I wouldn't necessarily know what HE was responding to. As Chris pointed out, there's already a BDN article that hits the high points. That's normally posted at the same time as the full audio replay. -- Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) <chris (AT) uzdavinis (DOT) com> writes: Quote: "Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB]" <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> writes: David Erbas-White wrote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? This looks like a transcript to me: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33464,00.html Nevermind, it's incomplete. Note: This log is only the chat room transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio replay that is not available in this chat log. For all previous and upcoming live chats, see EventCentral. -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: Quote: David Erbas-White wrote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? And maybe that's why all these foolish people are using audio. Maybe they don't want to spend their time transcribing it for you when you could just as easily listen to the audio file. Thanks for the non-responsive response... I do some work with JPL. When they have a conference, immediately after the conference the audio replay is made available for a day or two, until the transcript is available. They recognize that ONE person doing the transcription can save the labor of HUNDREDS/THOUSANDS of people ALL having to slog through the audio version of the chat. It's called "efficiency"... David Erbas-White P.S. Please note that I didn't "demand" that Borland, or anyone else, provide the transcript -- I pointed out that it wasn't that good a decision. I asked, POLITELY, if Edward would mind hitting the 'high points' of the things that had made him write his comments. Even if I had listened to the chat, I wouldn't necessarily know what HE was responding to. Back to top Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? And maybe that's why all these foolish people are using audio. Maybe they don't want to spend their time transcribing it for you when you could just as easily listen to the audio file. -- Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 6:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat "Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB]" <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> writes: Quote: David Erbas-White wrote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? This looks like a transcript to me: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33464,00.html -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat David Erbas-White <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> writes: Quote: Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: Nevermind. You and Chris have demonstrated Edward's points more clearly than any possible replay could have done. Think about it... I haven't heard the audio, and don't know what Edward is talking about, but I completely agree for the need of a transcript if they want the message to get out. Not everyone has the time or the capability to playback audio files. -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: Nevermind. You and Chris have demonstrated Edward's points more clearly than any possible replay could have done. Think about it... David Erbas-White Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote: Quote: "Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB]" <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> writes: David Erbas-White wrote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? This looks like a transcript to me: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,33464,00.html Really? Then what, exactly, does this statement at the beginning mean?: ========= This is a log of the chat room during the live audio chat with "DevCo" luminaries on March 28, 2006. Note: This log is only the chat room transcript. There is much additional information covered in the audio replay that is not available in this chat log. ========= From this, I glean that this is a log of the CHAT ROOM, not a transcript of the audio discussion. Anyone else? David Erbas-White Back to top Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: You and Chris have demonstrated Edward's points more clearly than any possible replay could have done. Two completely different discussions. FWIW, I agree with a lot of what Edward said. The chat came across to me as very "Rah rah." It's good to hear that people are feeling positive about the possibilities for the future, but some of the speakers seemed a bit out of touch with reality and bit unwilling to acknowledge that along with the optimism comes a fair amount of uncertainty. That has nothing to do with whether transcribing an hour long discussion is easier than listening to it. -- Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] Back to top William Charles Nickerson Guest Posted: Wed Mar 29, 2006 8:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] wrote: <snip> Quote: That has nothing to do with whether transcribing an hour long discussion is easier than listening to it. I believe that David's point is that it is much easier to skim and glean highlights from a transcript than an audio playback. You could probably skim the transcript in 5 to 10 minutes. As for listening while multitasking, it really depends on what the other tasks are -- I personally find that sound is one of the things that becomes peripheral when I'm multitasking so it wouldn't necessarily be a good thing for me. Shalom Bill Back to top Boian Mitov Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat I am sorry to break the mood, but the event was not very remarkable. It was in essence 3 parts if I recall correctly: 1. Statements by different BTP how they felt when they heard the DevCo spin off news. 2. Statements by different BTP why we should use BDS instead of VS. 3. DavidI answering questions. Honestly the last part was the only one that contained any valuable information at least from my prospective. The rest was anywhere from boring to non essential. I am still scratching my head trying to figure out why we had to listen to something like 20 minutes of people talking how they felt and what they ware thinking when the heard the news... I mean where is the value of that? The only important part was us being reassured that DevCo will continue with the work on new features releases etc., and that they will keep focused on the developers. Very nice to hear, but not worth spending 75 minutes just to hear that... With best regards, Boian Mitov Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote: Quote: I haven't heard the audio, and don't know what Edward is talking about, but I completely agree for the need of a transcript if they want the message to get out. Not everyone has the time or the capability to playback audio files. Back to top Torsten Franz Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 19:37:44 +0200, Gillmer J. Derge [TeamB] <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: I just don't see why it's so much more efficient for you to read than to listen. Did you ever think of non native english speakers? Most are better in reading than listening, including myself. Torsten Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:03 am    Post subject: Re: DevCo Luminaries Chat "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote in message news:442ab5c4 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: That all having been said, would you mind giving the 'short version' of what was said, for the benefit of those of us who are too stubborn to listen to the chat? I gather you're not happy with the response (<G>), but what was said that triggered your comments? OK. They were banging on about Java, .Net, and Delphi. They mentioned how important Win32 development is, and will continue to be for the foreseeable future. The rest was waffle, AFAIWC. Loads of lip-service to good ideas, but little or no actual working products (I would not regard BDS2006 as working yet). -- Mark Jacobs DK Computing http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 17, 18, 19  Next Page 1 of 19   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.