BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  DevExpress & D8 Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message lc Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 2:51 pm    Post subject: DevExpress & D8 One must wonder why the biiggest and (arguably) the most popuplar third-party verndor, keeps dodging compiler updates for D8. I'm sure they're not the only ones; just, considering their size, very hard to miss. Shouldn't Borland be concerned with this fact? lc Back to top TObject Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 "zedd" <nospam (AT) for (DOT) me> wrote Quote: For the general lack of D8 activity, the stats of DSP, DelphiPages, Torry, Delphi3000, DelphiSuperPages, Developpez, etc. speak for themselves. Those stats may or may not represent the true picture accurately. For example, I extremely rarely if ever visit any of these web sites. But I work with Delphi 8 every day on real projects. I have two applications finished with Delphi 8 for a customer, they are deployed and being used. I have an ASP.NET application written with Delphi that is about half done. And I am working on a port of an order processing system from Delphi 5 to Delphi 8. Not really a one to one port, rather a new version with many new features, and going from client-server to multi-tier architecture. Lack of support from third party component providers pushed me to make a decision not to use any third party components, which slows down some areas of development. For instance, I do not have a viable reporting solution just yet, and still rely on modules written with Delphi 5 for reporting. Back to top Ed Dressel Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: One must wonder why the biiggest and (arguably) the most popuplar third-party verndor, keeps dodging compiler updates for D8. I'm sure they're not the only ones; just, considering their size, very hard to miss. Shouldn't Borland be concerned with this fact? I've talked with them and at least one other 3rd party vendor: while Borland made it relatively easy for applications to port to .NET, that isn't true of 3rd party products that use Win32 api, for obvious reasons. It is quite a job for them to get to Delphi.NET. Ed Dressel Back to top zedd Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: One must wonder why the biiggest and (arguably) the most popuplar third-party verndor, keeps dodging compiler updates for D8. DevExpress is now focused on Visual Studio, so either it works with little effort in D8, or they won't make the effort. My current take is that D8 is flopping. It probably had a good start from the hype, but they (Borland) didn't convince more than half of their customers to buy it, a lot less decided to port their applications to it, and they got no more than a negligible amount of converts from Visual Studio. Among those using Delphi 8, I would venture that no more than a third are using it for more than hobby or experimentation (and I'm being generous). I don't think many were satisfied by what they found in Delphi 8 after testing it. From QC, it also appears there are still major defects and missing features after two patches. There are also a lot less votes and ratings on new entries when compared to Delphi-BCB, which I take as a hint of lack of interest & customers. Another hint is the very low amount of activity on the front of D8 compatible components and libraries on components sites (and what are marked as Delphi 8 compatible in these are often ActiveX or .Net components written in C#). The adoption rate and general buzz used to be a lot higher for previous versions of Delphi. From the blogs, it also seems there is a soon-to-happen Delphi 9 mixing Win32 & .Net, so I guess Delphi 8 will be skipped by many, even those interested by .Net will probably wait for Delphi 9 or Whidbey before commiting new applications to an IDE/platform. There are also those looking forward to making good use of those nice 64bits servers they have just received... and they don't have the Delphi option anymore. Z Back to top Rudy Velthuis Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 At 18:44:09, 29.05.2004, zedd wrote: Quote: One must wonder why the biiggest and (arguably) the most popuplar third-party verndor, keeps dodging compiler updates for D8. DevExpress is now focused on Visual Studio, so either it works with little effort in D8, or they won't make the effort. My current take is that D8 is flopping. Borland says it is doing very well. Since you have not much data to go by, but they do, allow me to take your "take" with a bag of salt. Oh, yes, of course Borland could just be saying so. So could you. <g> -- Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) "Lohr's Law: The future is merely the past with a twist — and better tools." -- Steve Lohr Back to top JohnE Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: My current take is that D8 is flopping. It probably had a good start from the hype, but they (Borland) didn't convince more than half of their customers to buy it, a lot less decided to port their applications to it, Xavier's book (Delphi for .Net) might help D8 as the docs with D8 are not for the .Net newbie. I just received his book, and as usual it's very good. Quote: From the blogs, it also seems there is a soon-to-happen Delphi 9 mixing Win32 & .Net, so I guess Delphi 8 will be skipped by many, even those interested by .Net will probably wait for Delphi 9 You are probably correct. John Back to top Eugene Mayevski [SecureBl Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 zedd wrote: Quote: DevExpress is now focused on Visual Studio, so either it works with little effort in D8, or they won't make the effort. ..NET is not doing very well, especially for third-party component vendors. And QuantumGrid stuff - several people I talked to bought this stuff and failed to make use of it due to numerous problems. -- Eugene Mayevski EldoS Corp., CTO Security and networking solutions http://www.eldos.com Back to top zedd Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: Since you have not much data to go by, but they do, allow me to take your "take" with a bag of salt. For the general lack of D8 activity, the stats of DSP, DelphiPages, Torry, Delphi3000, DelphiSuperPages, Developpez, etc. speak for themselves. Even on CodeCentral, search for components Delphi 8 compatible, there are 50 matches only, just have a look at what they are... I didn't found more than a dozen that were referring to D8-based components -5 months after release- and most were quite trivial exemples. The same query for Delphi 7 yelds 327 results, of which a majority refers to D7-based components. Try performing a similar search on the aforementionned websites (or just look at the new releases lists), the results will be similar. That's no proof of low sales, but you'll at least have to admit this isn't a positive sign. It never happened before, even for the bug-ridden D4 release. Z Back to top Kostya Poukhov Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:24 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 We've had very good development environment for good and popular OS. Numerous applications were developed using this combination with great success. Instead of improving on what we've already had the vendors shoved new technology (.NET) down our throats. Thanks guys. Now we have to forget everything we've done and start wasting money and efforts to fill somebody else's pockets. Kostya Back to top Ed Dressel Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: And QuantumGrid stuff - several people I talked to bought this stuff and failed to make use of it due to numerous problems. I use DE components, including QG, in my application and have found it very stable. The grid is an excellent product. Ed Dressel Back to top Ed Dressel Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: DevExpress is now focused on Visual Studio, so either it works with little effort in D8, or they won't make the effort. You obviously speak from a total lack of knowledge--which you should have stated. DE is focused on D8 and time will tell. Quote: My current take is that D8 is flopping. I am going to assume your intentions are good but your lack of knowleges is massive. I have heard from the inside and D8 has been a great success for Borland and I know DevExpress has worked hard to get Ed Dressel Quote: from the hype, but they (Borland) didn't convince more than half of their customers to buy it, a lot less decided to port their applications to it, and they got no more than a negligible amount of converts from Visual Studio. Among those using Delphi 8, I would venture that no more than a third are using it for more than hobby or experimentation (and I'm being generous). I don't think many were satisfied by what they found in Delphi 8 after testing it. From QC, it also appears there are still major defects and missing features after two patches. There are also a lot less votes and ratings on new entries when compared to Delphi-BCB, which I take as a hint of lack of interest & customers. Another hint is the very low amount of activity on the front of D8 compatible components and libraries on components sites (and what are marked as Delphi 8 compatible in these are often ActiveX or .Net components written in C#). The adoption rate and general buzz used to be a lot higher for previous versions of Delphi. From the blogs, it also seems there is a soon-to-happen Delphi 9 mixing Win32 & .Net, so I guess Delphi 8 will be skipped by many, even those interested by .Net will probably wait for Delphi 9 or Whidbey before commiting new applications to an IDE/platform. There are also those looking forward to making good use of those nice 64bits servers they have just received... and they don't have the Delphi option anymore. Z Back to top Ed Dressel Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: Even on CodeCentral, search for components Delphi 8 compatible, there are 50 matches only, just have a look at what they are... I didn't found more than a dozen that were referring to D8-based components -5 months after release- and most were quite trivial exemples. The same query for Delphi 7 yelds 327 results, of which a majority refers to D7-based components. But how about the other versions of Delphi in their early period of release? Specifically D1--as that is about the same volume of change we are talking about. It takes a while for the 3rd party to catch up. Ed Dressel Back to top zedd Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:42 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: But how about the other versions of Delphi in their early period of release? Come on, 5 months and all we have a ridiculous samples? How come nothing major has been ported? Many little, useful components were ported at each release. It didn't happen this time. Z Back to top zedd Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:44 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Quote: You obviously speak from a total lack of knowledge--which you should have stated. DE is focused on D8 and time will tell. Yes, it will. Quote: I have heard from the inside and D8 has been a great success for Borland and I know DevExpress has worked hard to get I heard it often, but so far, I've only witnessed hearings, not happenings. Also each time I tried to dug about that "great success", it always pointed back to information obtained in the first months. Maybe unlike you, I've seen what happened to some of the D8 copies that were purchased at that time. Time will tell. Mark those words, and mark them well. Z Back to top Eugene Mayevski [SecureBl Guest Posted: Sat May 29, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: DevExpress & D8 Ed Dressel wrote: Quote: And QuantumGrid stuff - several people I talked to bought this stuff and failed to make use of it due to numerous problems. I use DE components, including QG, in my application and have found it very stable. The grid is an excellent product. You are talking about QG.NET, don't you? -- Eugene Mayevski EldoS Corp., CTO Security and networking solutions http://www.eldos.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next Page 1 of 10   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.