BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Fastcode Library Design Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Language BASM View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:23 am    Post subject: Fastcode Library Design Hi Michael and John are working on the design of a new type of library. I think it is a good idead if they present the design here. Then we can discuss it and adjust it if needed. Michaels library can exemplify the design. I see the new design as a suggestion for an extension of the current design. The current design has 4 different library types and this is a 5. type - IMHO. I have a 6. type published in the unofficial library section. It consist of 2 units; Math and Strings. Such a unit contains all the winners from one target. I have only implemented the a library for the Blended target. All functions are named the same as the current RTL functions. Just plug in the unit in the correct uses sections and you will compile against all the Blended target winners. Because we do not want 713 different library types if 699 is enough we should carefully discuss the overall design before starting to create new library types. Best regards Dennis ---------------------------------------- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at få 1459 spam-mails. Betalende brugere får ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. Hent gratis SPAMfighter her: www.spamfighter.dk Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi Each library type has its own unique set of strengths and weaknesses. Help me enumerate them. Direct Calling: Pro Simple The smallest possible exe No additional RAM usage. Cons Compiled for one target only Conditional Compilation: Pro The smallest possible exe No additional RAM usage. Cons Compiled for one target only CPU ID based: Pro The fastest function for the given target is automatically used. Cons All functions are compiled into the exe -> a fat exe Patching Pro All calls to RTL functions from within the RTL is replaced without the need of the RTL to be recompiled. The fastest function for the given target is automatically used. Cons A fat exe. One function is 4 kB big in RAM always ???? All functions are loaded into RAM, even if not used. Not all people feel comfortable with some "hacking" they do not understand. A complex solution Best regards Dennis Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:39 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi Each library type has its own unique set of strengths and weaknesses. Help me enumerate them. Direct Calling: Pro Simple The smallest possible exe No additional RAM usage. No extra indirection The fastest possible. Cons Compiled for one target only The unit can contain the same function multiple times if it is a winner on multiple targets. This makes the unit bigger as necessary which takes up HD space on the developer machine. Maintanence is simpler if only one copy of a function is included. Conditional Compilation: Pro The smallest possible exe No additional RAM usage. No extra indirection The fastest possible. Cons Compiled for one target only CPU ID based: Pro The fastest function for the given target is automatically used. Cons All functions are compiled into the exe -> a fat exe Adds one extra layer of indirection. Not as simple as Direct calling or conditional compilation. Depends on the CPUID unit Patching Pro All calls to RTL functions from within the RTL is replaced without the need of the RTL to be recompiled. The fastest function for the given target is automatically used. Cons A fat exe. Adds one extra layer of indirection. One function is 4 kB big in RAM always ???? All functions are loaded into RAM, even if not used. Not all people feel comfortable with some "hacking" they do not understand. A complex solution Depends on the CPUID unit Best regards Dennis Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi "Aleksandr Sharahov Quote: I think new design is good. OK Quote: It makes the libraries more usable and controlled. How? Compared to what? Quote: I usually use the same design in practice for interface with DLL of other developers OK Quote: If someone really wants to get the last tick by direct calling he can copy the function from our sources. No they can use the direct calling libraries. Regards Dennis Back to top John O'Harrow Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design "Dennis" <marianndkc (AT) home3 (DOT) gvdnet.dk> wrote Quote: Hi "Aleksandr Sharahov I think new design is good. OK It makes the libraries more usable and controlled. I also prefer the new design. Quote: How? Compared to what? I usually use the same design in practice for interface with DLL of other developers OK If someone really wants to get the last tick by direct calling he can copy the function from our sources. No they can use the direct calling libraries. Even with the new library design, you could still direct call the fastest function for any target. Dennis, you ask for peoples opinions and them immediately tell them they are wrong. Please try to keep the discussion relevant. and please don't take any change proposals as a personal criticism. regards, John Back to top Aleksandr Sharahov Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi Dennis, I think new design is good. It makes the libraries more usable and controlled. I usually use the same design in practice for interface with DLL of other developers If someone really wants to get the last tick by direct calling he can copy the function from our sources. -- regards Aleksandr Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi John Quote: I also prefer the new design. How? Compared to what? I usually use the same design in practice for interface with DLL of other developers OK If someone really wants to get the last tick by direct calling he can copy the function from our sources. No they can use the direct calling libraries. Even with the new library design, you could still direct call the fastest function for any target. OK Quote: Dennis, you ask for peoples opinions and them immediately tell them they are wrong. Please try to keep the discussion relevant. and please don't take any change proposals as a personal criticism. John - I have tried to explain many times that the problem is that people constantly disregard all we have done and start the same discusions over and over again. You just did it on the library design and the global rule for memory usage. I do not take it personally. All this endless noise just makes it impossible to move on. My everyday life has been very sad lately because of all this. People do not even read through the old stuff before suggestion we should do everything in a new way. In this thread we should try to settle the library design again. Document it and stick to it. You have no idea how difficult it is to manage a project of this size. People make suggestions without thinking through the consequences. Regards Dennis Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi The new library description from the Readme: What is does .. The following library will replace the current RTL procedure & functions used by your applications with faster, optimized for the latest processors. Currently the following functions are supported: CompareText, LowerCase, UpperCase, Pos, StrComp and StrCopy. (and more to come ...) ... Usage .. To use it must include the "Fastcode" unit in the first order of your uses clauses of your delphi project. If you're using and alternative memory manager and/or FastMove the order should be like: FastMM4, FastMove, FastCode, ... etc ... Best regards Dennis Back to top John O'Harrow Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:34 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design "Dennis" <marianndkc (AT) home3 (DOT) gvdnet.dk> wrote Quote: Dennis, you ask for peoples opinions and them immediately tell them they are wrong. Please try to keep the discussion relevant. and please don't take any change proposals as a personal criticism. John - I have tried to explain many times that the problem is that people constantly disregard all we have done and start the same discusions over and over again. You just did it on the library design and the global rule for memory usage. Not relevant to this discussion. Leave that in the other thread. Quote: In this thread we should try to settle the library design again. Document it and stick to it. You have no idea how difficult it is to manage a project of this size. People make suggestions without thinking through the consequences. I have managed some very large projects, but again, this is not relevant to this thread Back to the subject - "Fastcode Library Design" As you have stated, each existing library type (Direct Calling, Conditional Compilation and CPUID based selection) have their own Pro's and Con's In my opinion, the mere fact that we have 3 different libraries, each of which can be very large files, is deterring people from using them. The average Delphi high-level programmer wouldn't know which library to use, and the apparent complexity (perhaps 1000's of lines of BASM code, can make some people very nervous. What I believe we need is a simple method to get the community as a whole to accept and use Fastcode functions. Michael has on the whole achieved this by providing just one unit per Fastcode function, together with a few supporting units which hide any complexity from the programmer. In doing so, he has also removed much of the code duplication (at a cost of a few cycles per call), resulting in much smaller units, which should also be easier to support/maintain. regards, John Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:58 am    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi John Which all means that you think we should scrap all the old libraries and continue with this new design? Dennis Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi I really think it is important to complete this list and add the new suggested library to it. It will have it's own set of pro's and con's. Let us bring them out into the open. Best regards Dennis Back to top John O'Harrow Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design "Dennis" <marianndkc (AT) home3 (DOT) gvdnet.dk> wrote Quote: Hi John Which all means that you think we should scrap all the old libraries and continue with this new design? In "my" opinion, Yes. But that's what this thread is discussing. regards, John Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi John Do you agree that we should evaluate pro's and con's and comparing to the old libraries before continuing? Best regards Dennis Back to top John O'Harrow Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design "Dennis" <marianndkc (AT) home3 (DOT) gvdnet.dk> wrote Quote: Hi John Do you agree that we should evaluate pro's and con's and comparing to the old libraries before continuing? Yes, of course. I also think it is very important to get the views of users of Fastcode functions/libraries, and not just the programmers involved in producing them. regards, John Back to top Dennis Guest Posted: Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Fastcode Library Design Hi John Then please go to the subthread in this thread and help complete the list. Best regards Dennis ---------------------------------------- Jeg beskyttes af den gratis SPAMfighter til privatbrugere. Den har indtil videre sparet mig for at få 1463 spam-mails. Betalende brugere får ikke denne besked i deres e-mails. 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