BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Finally dumping BDE Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Databases (SQL Servers) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Steve Jones Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 1:11 pm    Post subject: Finally dumping BDE Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve Back to top Ken Brumback Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 3:57 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Steve, Not sure if you have read this from Bill Todd... http://resolution.extendedsystems.com/ADS/Product+Detail/_FAQs+and+Data+Sheets.htm a.. Advantage Database Server or Microsoft SQL Server: Which One is Right for You? HTH, Ken "Steve Jones" <steve_a_jones (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 4:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE I would not use Advantage. You have to register the engine online. If you are doing a hardwareupgrade/reinstall you must register again. When I used the version 7, I had a lot of trouble with the licence. Ole "Ken Brumback" <kbrumback (AT) arl (DOT) i-n-s.com> skrev i melding news:4256a971$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Steve, Not sure if you have read this from Bill Todd... http://resolution.extendedsystems.com/ADS/Product+Detail/_FAQs+and+Data+Sheets.htm a.. Advantage Database Server or Microsoft SQL Server: Which One is Right for You? HTH, Ken "Steve Jones" <steve_a_jones (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:425682f1$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE I started using Advantage version 6, it worked just great. I upgraded to version 7 as soon as it was available. Also ordered it to three clients of mine. I soon discovered problems on enginestartup, not a valid licence and so on. I did a reinstall on my own server and had to ask for a new key/licence, it took a couple of days to receive. As a principle I think an missioncritical application being dependent of online registration is a very bad idea. What if your 24/7 database is down, it's saturday and your local Advantage supplier is closed until monday? You have a big problem. I now use Sql Server and MySql. Ole "Bill Todd" <no (AT) no (DOT) com> skrev i melding news:4256b82f$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Are you sure you are thinking of Advantage. That sounds more like the InterBase registration system. -- Bill Todd (TeamB) TeamB cannot answer questions received via email Back to top Brett Watters Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Steve, Some things you need to consider. a) If you have been us Paradox and the BDE, that means you have been using a record oriented database, and likely TTable components. b) MS SQL, Interbase, Oracle, etc. are SQL-based databases. There are huge conceptual differences in the way you program using them. On the plus side, if you develop using SQL and include some care, you can often get the same application to run against multiple databases. I.e. the client can decide what DB they wish to use. c) No SQL database is an easy solution for most clients. Oracle and MS SQL (even the personal versions) are huge applications and often run straight into IT departments software policies. Most require specific back-up procedures, etc. Licenses also cost money. Even small amounts of money require clients to purchase software which delays sales. With 5-50 users, Interbase is likely a better solution. Single-user versions are cheap and it scales to smaller networks fairly easily. In any case, prepare for a lot of convertion work going from a desktop to a SQL-based database. Thanks, Brett "Steve Jones" <steve_a_jones (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve Back to top Bill Todd Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 5:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Are you sure you are thinking of Advantage. That sounds more like the InterBase registration system. -- Bill Todd (TeamB) TeamB cannot answer questions received via email Back to top Steve Jones Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 7:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Brett Watters wrote: Quote: Steve, Some things you need to consider. a) If you have been us Paradox and the BDE, that means you have been using a record oriented database, and likely TTable components. b) MS SQL, Interbase, Oracle, etc. are SQL-based databases. There are huge conceptual differences in the way you program using them. On the plus side, if you develop using SQL and include some care, you can often get the same application to run against multiple databases. I.e. the client can decide what DB they wish to use. c) No SQL database is an easy solution for most clients. Oracle and MS SQL (even the personal versions) are huge applications and often run straight into IT departments software policies. Most require specific back-up procedures, etc. Licenses also cost money. Even small amounts of money require clients to purchase software which delays sales. With 5-50 users, Interbase is likely a better solution. Single-user versions are cheap and it scales to smaller networks fairly easily. In any case, prepare for a lot of convertion work going from a desktop to a SQL-based database. Thanks, Brett "Steve Jones" <steve_a_jones (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:425682f1$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve I have been developing an Oracle application using Direct Oracle Access and Delphi for 5 years now, so plenty of experience with SQL-based databases! Quote: With 5-50 users, Interbase is likely a better solution. MSDE is royalty free! Also which would you say was more future proof, MS SQL Server or Interbase? Quote: On the plus side, if you develop using SQL and include some care, you can often get the same application to run against multiple databases. I.e. the client can decide what DB they wish to use. True, but tayloring it to one DB in particular usually brings speed improvements. Steve Back to top Euan Garden Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 8:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Bill does his usual stellar job of writing but this is a vendor paper designed to show off that product and should be read and viewed as such. The information on MSDE is out of date and hence wrong, the usage of number of training days to certification is certainly an "interesting" metric and the discussion on lock escalation is also interesting, and certainly worthy of discussion sometime. The reality is if you are making a comitment to a new platform you should try out your options yourself, benchmark and compare them. -Euan "Ken Brumback" <kbrumback (AT) arl (DOT) i-n-s.com> wrote Quote: Steve, Not sure if you have read this from Bill Todd... http://resolution.extendedsystems.com/ADS/Product+Detail/_FAQs+and+Data+Sheets.htm a.. Advantage Database Server or Microsoft SQL Server: Which One is Right for You? HTH, Ken "Steve Jones" <steve_a_jones (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:425682f1$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Hi, I have a long standing application that still uses the BDE, the powers that be have decided (with some persuasion) it is time to finally dump this obsolete database engine and move to SQL server. Most of the end users of this application are standalone users, i.e. single machine environments. A few users are networked, but no more than 5. A requirement has also arisen for a larger user installation of about 50 users. After perusal of the Microsoft SQL server web pages I see that there is a desktop engine which would be ideal for the standalone and small networked users. With the large user installation using the full blown version of SQL server. Does all this sound reasonable? Now, what I liked about the BDE was that I had to do practically zero support apart from instructing the users to delete all paradox.lck and pdoxusrs.lck files from time to time. It never, ever caused me any serious grief which for obvious reasons is good! So has does MSDE compare? Can I create a nice installation package that installs it transparently to the user and then will it just work without any serious support issues? The large user installation will be maintaining there own installation so no worries there. Thanks in advance for any thoughts and comments, Steve Back to top Hannes Danzl[NDD] Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Quote: MSDE is royalty free! Also which would you say was more future proof, MS SQL Server or Interbase? You might want to read the MSDE license closely. I wouldn't call a restricted licensing like this royalty free. -- Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer] Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm Back to top Euan Garden Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE The MSDE license was changed sometime ago to make it free to download, use and redist. What restriction are you referring to in the current license? -Euan "Hannes Danzl[NDD]" <hannes (AT) nexusdb (DOT) dbnexus.com> wrote Quote: MSDE is royalty free! Also which would you say was more future proof, MS SQL Server or Interbase? You might want to read the MSDE license closely. I wouldn't call a restricted licensing like this royalty free. -- Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer] Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm Back to top Euan Garden Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE To be clear its not a connection limit its a concurrent workload limit and the actual number is 8 but in general 3 are used by the system hence the average is 5. -Euan "Bill Todd" <no (AT) no (DOT) com> wrote Quote: The only current restriction I am aware of for MSDE is the five connection governor. Have you read the current license for the freely downloadable version? There are no restrictions on deployment that I can see. -- Bill Todd (TeamB) TeamB cannot answer questions received via email Back to top Bill Todd Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE The only current restriction I am aware of for MSDE is the five connection governor. Have you read the current license for the freely downloadable version? There are no restrictions on deployment that I can see. -- Bill Todd (TeamB) TeamB cannot answer questions received via email Back to top Euan Garden Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE No worries, I could get a full time job correcting misconceptions about MSDE :-) -Euan "Hannes Danzl[NDD]" <hannes (AT) nexusdb (DOT) dbnexus.com> wrote Quote: The MSDE license was changed sometime ago to make it free to download, use and redist. What restriction are you referring to in the current license? Sorry, I obviously didn't realize the change in the license. I recently read the (apparently old) license when installing some Software built on it. Please take my apology for that! -- Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer] Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm Back to top Hannes Danzl[NDD] Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Quote: The MSDE license was changed sometime ago to make it free to download, use and redist. What restriction are you referring to in the current license? Sorry, I obviously didn't realize the change in the license. I recently read the (apparently old) license when installing some Software built on it. Please take my apology for that! -- Hannes Danzl [NexusDB Developer] Newsgroup archive at http://www.tamaracka.com/search.htm Back to top Bill Todd Guest Posted: Fri Apr 08, 2005 11:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Finally dumping BDE Poor choice of words on my part. 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