BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Help with LGPL Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Nicholas Sherlock Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 7:31 am    Post subject: Help with LGPL Hey all, Can someone who understands the LGPL licence answer this question? I want to use a toolbar icon library which has been released under the LGPL. Does this make my application a "Work that uses the library" or a "derivative of the library"? I don't modify the icons in any way, so do I have to include a notice saying that my work contains these icons? Does my work become LGPL (I don't think so)? Cheers, Nicholas Sherlock Back to top Craig Stuntz [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Quote: Can someone who understands the LGPL licence answer this question? I want to use a toolbar icon library which has been released under the LGPL. That's a bit of a problem, as the LGPL is really designed to license software libraries, and says so repeatedly in the license itself. The terms of the license, which are normally quite clear, become rather vague when you have to decide what does or does not constitute a derivatve work of an image. You could contact a lawyer, as advised elsewhere, or you could contact the author of the library to see if they're willing to dual-license under a license which is more clearly relevant to images, such as Creative Commons. -Craig -- Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz How to ask questions the smart way: http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Out of curiosity, what is the icon library? -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Michael Anonymous Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Quote: Hey all, Can someone who understands the LGPL licence answer this question? I want to use a toolbar icon library which has been released under the LGPL. Does this make my application a "Work that uses the library" or a "derivative of the library"? I don't modify the icons in any way, so do I have to include a notice saying that my work contains these icons? Does my work become LGPL (I don't think so)? Cheers, Nicholas Sherlock It would most likely be a "work that uses the library". You can use LGPL libraries in both commercial and GPL software. I believe there is a GPL FAQ online somewhere but I'm unable to find it. Perhaps someone else can. http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/lgpl.html ( Probably a better place to ask this kind question would be in a Linux or a GNU newsgroup. Just an idea ... ) Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Distribute using BPL and make sure that the class is in a BPL or DLL and you are OK. There is a modified version of the GPL and LGPL that has been released by the GNU and it specifically allows you to compile the code into the EXE. This is the license that FreePascal and Lazarus are using (i.e. the modified one). Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Quote: Hey all, Can someone who understands the LGPL licence answer this question? I want to use a toolbar icon library which has been released under the LGPL. Does this make my application a "Work that uses the library" or a "derivative of the library"? I don't modify the icons in any way, so do I have to include a notice saying that my work contains these icons? Does my work become LGPL (I don't think so)? Cheers, Nicholas Sherlock -- Thomas Miller Wash DC Delphi SIG Chairperson Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://www.cpcug.org/user/delphi/index.html https://sourceforge.net/projects/uopl/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Nicholas Sherlock Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Bruce McGee wrote: Quote: Out of curiosity, what is the icon library? The excellent "Nuvola" icon library at: http://www.icon-king.com/goodies.php.en Cheers, Nicholas Sherlock Back to top Craig Stuntz [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 30, 2005 8:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Quote: Bruce McGee wrote: Out of curiosity, what is the icon library? The excellent "Nuvola" icon library at: http://www.icon-king.com/goodies.php.en Had you said that from the outset, I could have pointed you to the definitive answer to your question: http://www.icon-king.com/faq.php.en?p=default&cat=4#a7 -Craig -- Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz All the great TeamB service you've come to expect plus (New!) Irish Tin Whistle tips: http://learningtowhistle.blogspot.com Back to top Nicholas Sherlock Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 3:30 am    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Craig Stuntz [TeamB] wrote: Quote: Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Bruce McGee wrote: Out of curiosity, what is the icon library? The excellent "Nuvola" icon library at: http://www.icon-king.com/goodies.php.en Had you said that from the outset, I could have pointed you to the definitive answer to your question: http://www.icon-king.com/faq.php.en?p=default&cat=4#a7 Which says precisely nothing. None of it is specific to what is being offered (icons), it is simply a summary of the LGPL licence. Cheers, Nicholas Sherlock Back to top Craig Stuntz [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Nicholas Sherlock wrote: Quote: Which says precisely nothing. None of it is specific to what is being offered (icons), it is simply a summary of the LGPL licence. Did you read the same page I did? Under the LGPL section: "An icon theme is special kind of software library, it is an artwork library, it's [sic] elements can be used in a Graphical User Interface, or GUI." It is clear that the author / licensor considers his work to be a software library in the sense that the LGPL uses the term. Hence you must treat it as if it were code. "If [...] develop a program based upon it, you may distribute the resulting work provided you do so under the GNU Lesser General Public License." This is interesting because AFAIK that is *not* what the LGPL says -- it's what the GPL says. But nevertheless the author's intentions are quite clear: You must develop either non-commerical software (and use the CC license) or LGPLed software. -- Craig Stuntz [TeamB] · Vertex Systems Corp. · Columbus, OH Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz IB 6 versions prior to 6.0.1.6 are pre-release and may corrupt your DBs! Open Edition users, get 6.0.1.6 from http://mers.com Back to top Oliver Townshend Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Quote: This is interesting because AFAIK that is *not* what the LGPL says -- it's what the GPL says. But nevertheless the author's intentions are quite clear: You must develop either non-commerical software (and use the CC license) or LGPLed software. The Author's intentions don't count. The licence does. I would have thought that Icons in a toolbar (or somesuch) aren't a derivative work. Whereas adapting the pictures and making more (eg shadowed, highlighted, different colours) would be. Oliver Townshend Back to top Craig Stuntz [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 12:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Oliver Townshend wrote: Quote: The Author's intentions don't count. Interesting POV, considering how inappropriate the license itself is for an image. This sort of question is exactly why the GFDL exists. While I agree the license is what's binding, when there are vagueries in the license -- and there certainly are here -- I want to know how the person who enforces it will be interpreting them. -- Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz Everything You Need to Know About InterBase Character Sets: http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz/articles/403.aspx Back to top Oliver Townshend Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Quote: Interesting POV, considering how inappropriate the license itself is for an image. This sort of question is exactly why the GFDL exists. Well I suppose the best way to do it might be to put the icons in a separate object, eg files in a folder and load them. Quote: While I agree the license is what's binding, when there are vagueries in the license -- and there certainly are here -- I want to know how the person who enforces it will be interpreting them. Well that's a good point. Breaching the author's intent might not get you into legal trouble, but could bring in a lot of hassle and bad publicity. Oliver Townshend Back to top Craig Stuntz [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 1:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Oliver Townshend wrote: Quote: Interesting POV, considering how inappropriate the license itself is for an image. This sort of question is exactly why the GFDL exists. Well I suppose the best way to do it might be to put the icons in a separate object, eg files in a folder and load them. In my opinion, the best thing to do in this case is *not use* the icons for closed-source, commercial software. It is entirely clear the author doesn't want you to do that. You might be able to skirt the rules, but why? There are plenty of nice icon libraries in the world. -- Craig Stuntz [TeamB] . Vertex Systems Corp. . Columbus, OH Delphi/InterBase Weblog : http://blogs.teamb.com/craigstuntz Borland newsgroup denizen Sergio Gonzalez has a new CD of Irish music out, and it's good: http://tinyurl.com/7hgfr Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Yep, that is what I would do. This way you know you are covered. Oliver Townshend wrote: Quote: Well I suppose the best way to do it might be to put the icons in a separate object, eg files in a folder and load them. -- Thomas Miller Wash DC Delphi SIG Chairperson Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://www.cpcug.org/user/delphi/index.html https://sourceforge.net/projects/uopl/ http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Nicholas Sherlock Guest Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 7:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Help with LGPL Oliver Townshend wrote: Quote: Well I suppose the best way to do it might be to put the icons in a separate object, eg files in a folder and load them. That would work and IIRC would require distributing a copy of the LGPL license (Since you are redistributing the content). The funny thing is, the new MadExcept uses these icons, only mentions the author and LGPL and no more (Does not distribute a copy of the license, and Madexcept is commercialware). Madshi, what is your interpretation of the license? 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