BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 10, 11, 12  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Paul Hectors Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:16 am    Post subject: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? For those who did not follow the thread on Xavier's book. John Kaster stated he will mention the idea at a next meeting regarding the idea of Borland Press. I personally think Borland Press is crucial so the likes of Xavier Pacheco, Marco Cantu, Bob Swart, Joanna Carter etc etc have a better chance with the publishers. In my opinion the authors of articles and books are crucial to our community and have given so much over the years to the Delphi community and Borland. Apart from buying their books how can we get Borland to raise the priority on this issue? If publishers do not want to support Delphi texts than maybe EBooks is the way forward but I imagine that Borland and the authors could figure out a commercial viable way if given the chance. My 2 cents. Paul Hectors Back to top John Kaster (Borland) Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:05 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Paul Hectors in <40f5e915 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com> wrote: Quote: John Kaster stated he will mention the idea at a next meeting regarding the idea of Borland Press. It's an issue David and I have discussed on and off for several years. Don't expect to see a change in 48 hours. -- John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, http://bdn.borland.com BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004 Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com Get source: http://cc.borland.com Unofficial information overload: http://blogs.borland.com Back to top David Clegg Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? John Kaster (Borland) wrote: Quote: Don't expect to see a change in 48 hours. No worries. We can hold off until Monday :-) -- Cheers, David Clegg dclegg_at_ebetonline_dot_com Vote 1 http://cc.borland.com/codecentral/ccweb.exe/listing?id=21489 Now supports Google Groups searching with Dyna-extend(tm) technology! Quality Central. The best way to bug Borland about bugs. http://qc.borland.com "Are you sure this is the Sci-Fi Convention? It's full of nerds!" - Homer Simpson Back to top Xavier Pacheco Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:40 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Paul, I think that there are several factors here. 1. Publishers claim that they get no support from Borland. To some extent, this is true. Ever since Nan Borreson left, the role she filled was never replaced. She was the primary liason between Borland and publishers and coordinated efforts around co-marketing, packaging, etc. 2. Borland would claim that publishers are fullfilling thier own prophecy, they believe books won't sell so they don't print and market them heavily. This too is also true. I'm experiencing this right now. I just found out that the initial printing of my book was 3000. They have to do a another printing here shortly. By the way, the book that Steve and I sold most of sold over 20,000 copies (I think I have that right). 3. While I believe that John, Anders, and the rest of the developer relations team sincerly desire to rectify this matter, I don't believe they have corporate sponsorship. In fact, I would to as far as to say that they don't have and are struggling with obtaining corporate sponsorship/buy in (which translates to moola if you know what I mean) to many of the great ideas they could do for the development community. I've considered being done with the development books. However, as long as there are developers who will benefit from my efforts, I'll keep writing them. Probably not with the mainstream publishers, anymore. Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the history, culture and character of traditional Santa Fean Cuisine. This will be an anti-gourmet treatment of the type of food you'd get if were were raised in santa fe and not what you'd get in a typical restaurant. I'll cover things like the importance of the heat high and why spices like cilantro are sacrilegious to santa fean food. I doubt I'll get any help from Sams or Borland on this one. But, it ought to be fun - nontheless. -- x -- Xavier Pacheco President, Consultant Xapware Technologies Inc www.xapware.com --- Author - Delphi for .NET Developer's Guide http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324431/ Back to top jed Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:45 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Paul Hectors wrote: Quote: John Kaster stated he will mention the idea at a next meeting regarding the idea of Borland Press. There used to be a Borland Press. I have a couple of Books with that on it. -- JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/ Alpha 2.6 - Now Available (30 June 2004) Back to top Paul Hectors Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? "John Kaster (Borland)" <johnk (AT) borland (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Paul Hectors in <40f5e915 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com> wrote: John Kaster stated he will mention the idea at a next meeting regarding the idea of Borland Press. It's an issue David and I have discussed on and off for several years. Don't expect to see a change in 48 hours. I understand, but I was hoping if enough people show their concern that it may rise in priority in the Borland marketing department. As a Delphi developer it is pretty dissappointing to see that both Marco Cantu and Joanna Carter have lots of material ready but no one wants to publish their Delphi books. I do not want to come across as telling Borland how to do their business but having articles and books published on Delphi are or should be related to your marketing strategy. I have heard the statement that Microsoft ensured that .Net had lots of shelf space so it is part of their marketing strategy, I am not saying Borland should or can afford to do this but books are essential to Delphi's popularity. Maybe it is and has been part of Borland's strategy but it is not visible to me. I guess I am frustrated in that there is currently only one book on Delphi ..NET and very few other Delphi books have been released in the last few years. I really like Delphi and all credit to everyone at Borland for creating an excellent product and language but it is frustrating being in what seems to be a very specialised language. Best regards, Paul Hectors Back to top Xavier Pacheco Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:04 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Quote: I was hoping if enough people show their concern that it may rise in priority in the Borland marketing department. Unlikely, you'll get many here that will raise thier voices for a week or so, but it will die out. You're talking about people being evangelists for Delphi's cause. Problem is, there has to be some indication that Borland also believes in the cause as well. Quote: having articles and books published on Delphi are or should be related to your marketing strategy. One would like to think. However, having books on Delphi, do not help sell Delphi. I've seen this arguement several times and I don't buy it. Having a viable corporate vision that encompasses Delphi that is reflected in the sales and marketing efforts will sell product. Note, it's not just having a vision, but a viable one. We could debate forever about what that is or should be. This fact alone indicates one does not really exist. In otherwords, we customers shouldn't be trying to figure that out. Borland should be able to say "This is our vision, blah blah blah". Our response would be - Yes! I haven't seen that for years. Quote: books are essential to Delphi's popularity. Well, the presense of them certainly reflect Delphi's popularity. Quote: I guess I am frustrated in that there is currently only one book on Delphi .NET and very few other Delphi books have been released in the last few years. I concur. Quote: I really like Delphi and all credit to everyone at Borland for creating an excellent product and language but it is frustrating being in what seems to be a very specialised language. Hey, there are still people developing in Cobol. I knew a Pace programmer in the military. - x -- Xavier Pacheco President, Consultant Xapware Technologies Inc www.xapware.com --- Author - Delphi for .NET Developer's Guide http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324431/ Back to top robin@ozsoft.com.au Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:10 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? I hope Delphi books keep appearing. I think it is very important. Especially to greener programmers like myself. When I was looking at Delphi 8 Vs Visual Studio, I almost joined the dark side because I could go to the book store and buy the documentation I needed to learn C# and .NET. Not being able to find books on a language makes it look unsupported (Which is not encouraging) and difficult to find your feet in. I decided however that Delphi was the friendlier language and chose it none-the-less, but this is highly due to previous experience in D6. It was some weeks before I discovered the book I needed, and that was due to reports on this news group. If I had not come here then I would not have the benefits of Xaviers wisdom, and may well have been considering defecting to VS. If Borland want new users, not just existing ones rolling from one Delphi version to the next, the I think this should be a very high priority. --Opinion of a new user-- Robin. Back to top Kim Madsen Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:26 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Hi, Interesting :) Could exchange a couple of words and it would be a description of yet another Delphi cookingbook :) "Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the history, culture and character of Delphi. This will be an anti-buzzword treatment of the type of code you'd get if were were raised in Codeland and not what you'd get from the typical school. I'll cover things like the importance of the heated discusions and why syntax like Delphi's are sacrilegious to Codeland code. I doubt I'll get any help from Sams or Borland on this one. But, it ought to be fun - nontheless." Sorry... couldnt resist ;) -- best regards Kim Madsen [email]kbm (AT) components4developers (DOT) com[/email] www.components4developers.com The best components for the best developers kbmMW - kbmMemTable - kbmWABD - kbmX10 Quote: Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the history, culture and character of traditional Santa Fean Cuisine. This will be an anti-gourmet treatment of the type of food you'd get if were were raised in santa fe and not what you'd get in a typical restaurant. I'll cover things like the importance of the heat high and why spices like cilantro are sacrilegious to santa fean food. I doubt I'll get any help from Sams or Borland on this one. But, it ought to be fun - nontheless. -- x -- Xavier Pacheco President, Consultant Xapware Technologies Inc www.xapware.com --- Author - Delphi for .NET Developer's Guide http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324431/ Back to top K. Sallee Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:55 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Quote: Probably not with the mainstream publishers, anymore. Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a bookon the history, culture and character of traditionalSanta Fean Cuisine Ever consider/use publish on demand? (example: http://www.aventinepress.com) Kevin -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ Back to top paul hectors Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Quote: Paul, I think that there are several factors here. 1. Publishers claim that they get no support from Borland. To some extent, this is true. Ever since Nan Borreson left, the role she filled was never replaced. She was the primary liason between Borland and publishers and coordinated efforts around co-marketing, packaging, etc. 2. Borland would claim that publishers are fullfilling thier own prophecy, they believe books won't sell so they don't print and market them heavily. This too is also true. I'm experiencing this right now. I just found out that the initial printing of my book was 3000. They have to do a another printing here shortly. By the way, the book that Steve and I sold most of sold over 20,000 copies (I think I have that right). 3. While I believe that John, Anders, and the rest of the developer relations team sincerly desire to rectify this matter, I don't believe they have corporate sponsorship. In fact, I would to as far as to say that they don't have and are struggling with obtaining corporate sponsorship/buy in (which translates to moola if you know what I mean) to many of the great ideas they could do for the development community. The reason for my post is to see if there is a way to back John and Anders so that something does happen. As a Delphi developer all I want is available resources from newsgroups, website, articles to books and at the moment publishers are the barrier to getting more material released. Quote: I've considered being done with the development books. However, as long as there are developers who will benefit from my efforts, I'll keep writing them. Probably not with the mainstream publishers, anymore. Thank you very much for doing this. I did not post before regarding your book, I am partly way through it and it is excellent. I am very pleased you put the Mono stuff in and mainly focussed on the FCL. I am very greatful you got the book published. Quote: Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the history, culture and character of traditional Santa Fean Cuisine. This will be an anti-gourmet treatment of the type of food you'd get if were were raised in santa fe and not what you'd get in a typical restaurant. I'll cover things like the importance of the heat high and why spices like cilantro are sacrilegious to santa fean food. I doubt I'll get any help from Sams or Borland on this one. But, it ought to be fun - nontheless. Good on you, sounds like your home is a good place to be around dinner time :-) I hear what you are saying and it is not Borland responsibility to publish but I believe it is in their best interest to grow the Delphi community. Quote: -- x -- Xavier Pacheco President, Consultant Xapware Technologies Inc www.xapware.com --- Author - Delphi for .NET Developer's Guide http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324431/ Back to top Marco Cantu Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 9:53 am    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Quote: I personally think Borland Press is crucial so the likes of Xavier Pacheco, Marco Cantu, Bob Swart, Joanna Carter etc etc have a better chance with the publishers. You might not know that, but it is Borland Press that got me in writing, at least in the US. I did 3 Borland Press books on C++ and OWL in the early 90ies. It was because of this that a person in Borland (Nan Borreson, who was never replaced) later got in contact with Sybex. At the same time, I have to say that those Borland Press books did poorly as far as sales, and I guess Borland lost money on those (collectively with many other books)... which was probably one of the reasons for stopping Borland Press. Still, they kept good relationships with publishers for a few more years. Nowadays things are quite hard. The tech book business has slowed considerably, many publishers are in small or big trouble... and also they apparently don't hear from Borland any more. It is frustrating when you have to spend a lot of time to explain Borland's strategies to a publisher, I don't think that's 100% my reponsability to convince them Delphi is still alive. Luckily enough I don't have to convince them to let me write suich a book, as my Mastering series has made good numebrs over the years, and has got them countless translation agreements with foreign publishers (probably around 50!). *** Getting back to Borland, I have to say I get a lot of help weith the info I need for book writing, often get availability from tech-editors... but in other areas there is very little help. I've tried putting out a Delphi 8 ebook, but never got even a link or reference (beside a blog entry by Anders O.), downalod numebrs have been good but not enough to push me into investing enough extra time, so I'm on the verge of cancelling that project. *** Getting to the readers, the real and actual problem is that Delphi programmers don't seem to be prone shelling out a lot of moeney for books and documentation in general. Advanced Delphi books never did well enough (and new editions of Konopka's, Lischner's, Thorpe's(!) books and my advance DDH book never happend for limited sales). I've released a few Delphi ebooks for free asking 5 dollars to keep them coming and got an average of 1 payment any 100.000 downaloads, probably even less. I'm considering ebooks and self-publishing for more advanced material (trying to get another generic printed volume out ASAP!), but the investment of time and money is such a project has to be much larger than just writing the book... and you have to self-impose tough schedules and manage everything, from tech editing to copy-editing. As an extra, I'm not a native English speaker, so this effort will put an extra strain on me. I have been toying with another idea, is a subscription-based site with content (not really like a magazine, more like a continually revised foundation material), but it will need about 1,000 people willing to pay 100 USD a year to work smoothly with a good set of authors. *** To summarize: everything Borland does to help is welcome, but I doubt this will happen. Reader's role is to buy Delphi books, buy magazine, subscribe to paid services: this is the only driving force for publishers (from my direct experience I've seen no cospiracy from publishers, only some business sense) and also for authors. - Marco Cantu (author Mastering Delphi 7) http://www.marcocantu.com Browse newsgroups at http://delphi.newswhat.com --- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com Back to top Xavier Pacheco Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 1:16 pm    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? Marco Cantu wrote: Quote: To summarize: everything Borland does to help is welcome, but I doubt this will happen. Reader's role is to buy Delphi books, buy magazine, subscribe to paid services: this is the only driving force for publishers (from my direct experience I've seen no cospiracy from publishers, only some business sense) and also for authors. Well put, Marco. Quote: Reader's role is to buy Delphi books, And that will only happen if there is a market for Delphi's book. I believe that if there is a demand, readers will buy them. If there is a demand, publishers will publish and print them. - x -- Xavier Pacheco President, Consultant Xapware Technologies Inc www.xapware.com --- Author - Delphi for .NET Developer's Guide http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0672324431/ Back to top Captain Jake Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 2:40 pm    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? "Xavier Pacheco" <xavier (AT) _nospam_xapware (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Paul, I think that there are several factors here. 1. Publishers claim that they get no support from Borland. To some extent, this is true. Ever since Nan Borreson left, the role she filled was never replaced. She was the primary liason between Borland and publishers and coordinated efforts around co-marketing, packaging, etc. When did she leave? I have a Borland Press book on C++ written by Marco Cantu still sitting on my bookshelves. It was a good book, written about BC4. Quote: 2. Borland would claim that publishers are fullfilling thier own prophecy, they believe books won't sell so they don't print and market them heavily. This too is also true. I'm experiencing this right now. I just found out that the initial printing of my book was 3000. They have to do a another printing here shortly. By the way, the book that Steve and I sold most of sold over 20,000 copies (I think I have that right). It is interesting that the only available book on Delphi for .NET sold only 3000 copies so far. I wonder why that is? Is it because few people are USING Delphi for .NET? Is it because Delphi users are less likely than users of other development tools to seek out books? On the other hand, maybe this is a good sales RATE, given the small amount of time since the book's release. I know nothing about the software book market. Quote: 3. While I believe that John, Anders, and the rest of the developer relations team sincerly desire to rectify this matter, I don't believe they have corporate sponsorship. In fact, I would to as far as to say that they don't have and are struggling with obtaining corporate sponsorship/buy in (which translates to moola if you know what I mean) to many of the great ideas they could do for the development community. I have suspected this for years now. As good as Dale was at digging Borland out of the Pizzaman Daze, I suspect that the same money-management approach is now stifling the company. As long as JBuilder was packing them in, this strategy appeared golden, but that cash cow is now drying up thanks to the continual collective suicide committed on behalf of all developers by open source developers. Eclipse has pulled back the curtain to reveal the true nature of the great Wizard of Oz. Quote: I've considered being done with the development books. However, as long as there are developers who will benefit from my efforts, I'll keep writing them. Probably not with the mainstream publishers, anymore. I gather that self-publishing via the internet has been a mixed experience for writers like Stephen King that have tried it. Quote: Right now, I'm seriously thinking about writing a book on the history, culture and character of traditional Santa Fean Cuisine. This will be an anti-gourmet treatment of the type of food you'd get if were were raised in santa fe and not what you'd get in a typical restaurant. I'll cover things like the importance of the heat high and why spices like cilantro are sacrilegious to santa fean food. I doubt I'll get any help from Sams or Borland on this one. But, it ought to be fun - nontheless. I've been thinking of writing a horror novel for years now. My real dream is to be the next Stephen King. I can die a happy man once I read a review somewhere that says my novel is "better than The Shining". -- Read Jake's Blog! http://blogs.slcdug.org/jjacobson/Rss.aspx Back to top Captain Jake Guest Posted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: How can we assist in making Borland Press happen? "Marco Cantu" <marco_fakemail (AT) marcocantu (DOT) com> wrote Quote: You might not know that, but it is Borland Press that got me in writing, at least in the US. I did 3 Borland Press books on C++ and OWL in the early 90ies. I still have two of those sitting on my bookshelf! One on OWL 2.0 (I think), and one on BC4 (I think). They were great books. Quote: Nowadays things are quite hard. The tech book business has slowed considerably, many publishers are in small or big trouble... and also they apparently don't hear from Borland any more. It is frustrating when you have to spend a lot of time to explain Borland's strategies to a publisher, I don't think that's 100% my reponsability to convince them Delphi is still alive. I think newsgroups and the internet in general have cut deeply into book sales. I remember back in the early 90's before the internet took off that if I had a technical question or a problem I went to the bookstore and found a book that covered it. Nowadays, my first reflex is to go to the newsgroups or Google. This almost always leads to the answer in just a few minutes, and at no financial expense to me. I suspect this is the case for most developers these days. The *need* for books is simply not there anymore, though some of us like books for leisurely reading purposes. In addition, some publishers pursued foolhardy practices and are now gun-shy. Wordware comes to mind. They seemed rather liberal in their choice of what they would publish on Delphi, but they usually charged ridiculously high prices for poorly edited books. I remember buying a Wordware book on image processing using Delphi. It seemed totally unedited, none of the code worked, the CDROM had mislabelled and missing chapter divisions, the page count was rather low but the price was something ridiculous ($54 IIRC). Total waste of my money. I had been sucked in by the excellent Tomes of Delphi API books and thought Wordware was a publisher I could trust. I heard recently that they have stopped publishing any Delphi books at all. Quote: To summarize: everything Borland does to help is welcome, but I doubt this will happen. Reader's role is to buy Delphi books, buy magazine, subscribe to paid services: this is the only driving force for publishers (from my direct experience I've seen no cospiracy from publishers, only some business sense) and also for authors. The internet has changed everything. Information has been turned into a free commodity that people don't want to pay for. 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