BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi OO design View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Ant Guest Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Hello all :) After many many hours/days of reading and digesting information about OPF and MVP I have noticed a few names cropping up time and time again they are: Bold for Delphi & ModelMaker also for Delphi going to the relevant sites (apart from Bold which takes me back to borland) they appear to be the following MM = UML including support for design patterns, I thought about MVP here but it isn't listed on the MM site. Bold = OPF afaics, I followed a tutorial for Bold and was amazed to see that the building example of MM was imported and generated all relevant code for Delphi aswell as tables for the DB. Is it really true that I could model an application in MM import it into Bold and then have it generate the entire application without a single line of code, this sounds too good to be true? How reliable are they, and how useful could they be to a programmer, does this not take the fun out of programming? I am curious, but don't want to be taken in by the hype. Anybody use these tools and found them useful? Back to top Charles McAllister Guest Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:25 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Ant wrote: Quote: How reliable are they, and how useful could they be to a programmer, does this not take the fun out of programming? I am curious, but don't want to be taken in by the hype. Anybody use these tools and found them useful? I'll comment about MM as I don't do Bold/ECO development. I mainly use MM as a productivity tool, and use its code generation abilities more than anything else. It has an API for inserting/changing properties, methods etc. For example, suppose you have a method that is overridden many times in many units and you'd like to add a parameter to that method and all instances where the method was overridden. You could do a search for that method and manually add the code, or you can write a quick script as a MM plug-in to make the changes. I don't use MM on a daily basis, but I consider it to be a must-have tool. -- ----------------------------------- got tags? http://del.icio.us/charlesmcallister Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2005 7:27 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Hi Ant Quote: MM = UML including support for design patterns, I use ModelMaker for writing my components it is a *very* nice tool, you will probably find it hard to find someone to disagree with me :-) Quote: that the building example of MM was imported and generated all relevant code for Delphi aswell as tables for the DB. It's better than that. When you rename classes / attributes, or refactor an attribute up/down the class hierarchy Bold can "Evolve" the DB. This basically means it restructures the DB whilst preserving the data (it moves data from the old column to the new column before dropping the old column). Quote: Is it really true that I could model an application in MM import it into Bold and then have it generate the entire application without a single line of code, this sounds too good to be true? Not quite You still have to implement the logic for your methods, and then trap some "ReceiveQueryFromOwned" calls (Owned = attributes / associations) if you want to make things read-only etc. Quote: How reliable are they, and how useful could they be to a programmer, I am currently writing quite a large app with Bold, I wouldn't have even attempted it without. Before I used to look at apps and think "what can I take out?", now I look at them and think "what can I put in?" :-) www.howtodothings.com was written with ECO (.net version of Bold). Quote: does this not take the fun out of programming? Not in my experience, it puts it in. Basically because I am concentrating on the fun high-level stuff like designing the classes/associations etc, and not messing around with the boring stuff like creating the DB or writing code to get/update objects in the DB. Quote: I am curious, but don't want to be taken in by the hype. I don't like the fact that Bold apps are typically fat-client apps. This is typically the same in ECO, except now you also have the option of writing WebServices or Websites. Quote: Anybody use these tools and found them useful? b.p.d.modeldrivenarchitecture.general = Bold b.p.d.modeldrivenarchitecture.eco = ECO -- Pete ==== ECO Modeler, Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com Read or write articles on just about anything http://www.HowToDoThings.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Bryan Crotaz Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:51 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? You can't do multithreading very easily in Bold. But for all my single threaded apps I use Bold in preference to anything else, especially if there is a UI to be built or database storage. See http://www.neosight.com/Net%20Job%20Case%20study.pdf Pete's site is built in ECO, the .Net version of Bold. My company site (www.inspiredsignage.com) is built in Bold. We have a windows user interface to do the content management. All text, pictures, menus etc are all managed through this. It took just less than three days to build. I couldn't work without Bold now. Certainly not at the speed we are able to work. Bryan Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:18 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: It took just less than three days to build. If ever you need anything written ask Bryan, everything he writes takes only three days :-) -- Pete ==== ECO Modeler, Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com Read or write articles on just about anything http://www.HowToDoThings.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Jim Cooper Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:52 am    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: I use ModelMaker for writing my components it is a *very* nice tool, you will probably find it hard to find someone to disagree with me No you won't I've never liked MM - the UI has always been (and remains) just plain weird Cheers, Jim Cooper __________________________________________ Jim Cooper [email]jcooper (AT) tabdee (DOT) ltd.uk[/email] Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm __________________________________________ Back to top Bryan Crotaz Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? "Peter Morris [Droopy eyes software]" <pete (AT) remove (DOT) this.droopyeyes.com> wrote in message news:421d0131$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: It took just less than three days to build. If ever you need anything written ask Bryan, everything he writes takes only three days Except the one I'm working on here which has taken 7 years so far... Back to top Ant Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:02 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Thanks everyone who replied. I have done some further investigations into the two tools, and afaics they are very useful, and cut development times significantly. MM looks particularly useful for OO development, at the moment everything I do in OOAD is on paper and then translated to clases in Delphi or C++. Bold it seems is probably little beyond me right now with my apps struggling to reach 1500 lines of code at most and my databases having no more than 10 tables in them. My version of Delphi comes with MM already not sure if it has Bold aswell, I reckon there must be between 12-15 discs in the box and I have only looked at 3 of them Delphi 7 oh and Starteam, which I have not been able to get running only the client not the server. I am off to play with MM now Thanks Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 5:33 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: No you won't I've never liked MM - the UI has always been (and remains) just plain weird The GUI was the hardest thing for me to get used to. After a couple of weeks though I had the hang of it, and I have never regretted using it. -- Pete ==== ECO Modeler, Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com Read or write articles on just about anything http://www.HowToDoThings.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Peter Morris [Droopy eyes Guest Posted: Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:00 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: I am off to play with MM now I'd recommend playing with the trial of MM8 instead of using MM6. It has some nice new features, like when you change the name of a local variable it updates the source. -- Pete ==== ECO Modeler, Audio compression components, DIB graphics controls, FastStrings http://www.droopyeyes.com Read or write articles on just about anything http://www.HowToDoThings.com My blog http://blogs.slcdug.org/petermorris/ Back to top Charles McAllister Guest Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Jim Cooper wrote: Quote: No you won't I've never liked MM - the UI has always been (and remains) just plain weird ever use the "Member Manipulator" feature? Back to top Jim Cooper Guest Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: ever use the "Member Manipulator" feature? Probably not. The whole UI I just find counter-intuitive. Cheers, Jim Cooper __________________________________________ Jim Cooper [email]jcooper (AT) tabdee (DOT) ltd.uk[/email] Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm __________________________________________ Back to top Nick Hodges [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Jim Cooper wrote: Quote: Probably not. The whole UI I just find counter-intuitive. Takes a little getting used to, but once you do, it totally rocks. -- Nick Hodges -- TeamB Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick Back to top Jim Cooper Guest Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Quote: Takes a little getting used to, but once you do, it totally rocks. I'm not convinced. You should be able to do simple things straight away, but you can't. I'm not convinced working from a UML model is amazingly useful either, especially if that model is in a different tool from your code. I've tried it several times (starting with the very first version), and worked with people who are much more experienced with it than me (and they have trouble with the UI too, usually). I don't like it, and I suspect I never will - it just doesn't gell with my way of thinking. Cheers, Jim Cooper __________________________________________ Jim Cooper [email]jcooper (AT) tabdee (DOT) ltd.uk[/email] Tabdee Ltd http://www.tabdee.ltd.uk TurboSync - Connecting Delphi to your Palm __________________________________________ Back to top Wayne Niddery [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: How useful are Bold and ModelMaker? Jim Cooper wrote: Quote: I'm not convinced. You should be able to do simple things straight away, but you can't. I'm not convinced working from a UML model is amazingly useful either, especially if that model is in a different tool from your code. I've tried it several times (starting with the very first version), and worked with people who are much more experienced with it than me (and they have trouble with the UI too, usually). I don't like it, and I suspect I never will - it just doesn't gell with my way of thinking. I enjoy using Enterprise Architect. The trade-off is it is not nearly as intimate with Delphi for code generation, but can still help. -- Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com) RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html "Democracy, without the guarantee of liberty, is merely a method of selecting tyrants." - Alan Nitikman Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi OO design All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.