BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  very (VERY) big application Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi OO design View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Hechicero Guest Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2006 9:27 pm    Post subject: very (VERY) big application Hi, I want to explain it very carefully. My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). Also its very difficult to debug the application. If you put a breakpoint besides being very slow you cant press f7 because Delphi hangs. To make things worst lately we've been having linking problems (random jumps from one procedure to another) that are forces us to rebuild everithing. Developement time is taken too long and simple problems takes developers a lot of time to solve because the application size. In short time I plan to lead a project to "modularize" (I know that word does not exists but I dont know how to translate it), the application in a way that solves the problem. But before that I want to gather information in newsgroups regarding this issue. For example one option would be to divide the app in many executables and find a way to give the executable the info it need. I hope you can help me. I dont like to write very long mails becuse they get difficut to readso I guess that to help you'd first need to ask some questions. Esteban Calabria Back to top Charles McAllister Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Hechicero wrote: Quote: Hi, I want to explain it very carefully. My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). i find that hard to believe. must be something wrong. i'm compiling a project that is over a million lines of code, in around 15 seconds. on a computer like the one you've mentioned, i would expect it to compile in about 30 seconds. is the source located on network shares? what about the output path, is it local? Back to top Cesar Romero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:06 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Are you compiling all librarys again? Are your components source path in Library path? I think that should be part of you problem... I try never to rebuild the components and library .dcu []s Cesar Romero Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:12 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Belive me, its true. I really find hard to belive what you say. It makes me envy. Does it takes 15 seconds to rebuild??? Everithing is local. We use cvs and every programmer works with a local copy of the source files. The output is also local. Besides I know another company that has a similar product (a little smaler) and also takes a lot of time to compile. They also use Delphi 7. Quote: i find that hard to believe. must be something wrong. i'm compiling a project that is over a million lines of code, in around 15 seconds. on a computer like the one you've mentioned, i would expect it to compile in about 30 seconds. is the source located on network shares? what about the output path, is it local? Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 12:14 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Whe only compile our sources. Third Party tools and libraries in the library path are already compiled. Besides the compiling times we have the problem that its very difficult to debug the application and the linking problems that forces frecuently rebuilds "Cesar Romero" <cesar (AT) liws (DOT) com.br> escribió en el mensaje news:45006dad$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Are you compiling all librarys again? Are your components source path in Library path? I think that should be part of you problem... I try never to rebuild the components and library .dcu []s Cesar Romero Back to top Charles McAllister Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 2:27 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Hechicero wrote: Quote: Belive me, its true. I really find hard to belive what you say. It makes me envy. Does it takes 15 seconds to rebuild??? yes. to do a full build on 1 million lines of code takes 15 seconds on my humble machine. you didn't mention how much RAM you had available? also, you may have a virus scanner scanning the exe output during/after compiling. can you check the cpu utilization during compiling to see if Delphi really is the only process consuming CPU time? Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 3:42 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application At 18:27:31, 07.09.2006, Hechicero wrote: Quote: Hi, I want to explain it very carefully. My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). Could it be that you are compiling files that are on another computer in a network? That could be so slow, but otherwise, this is far too slow. In that case, the best you can do is to make a local copy and compile that. Is that any faster? It could also be that a virus scanner or some such is interfering. But 90 minutes to compile a project is too slow. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.de/ "Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the frog dies of it." -- E. B. White (1899-1985) Back to top Jarle Stabell Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 4:54 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Hechicero wrote: Quote: Hi, I want to explain it very carefully. My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). Perhaps this blog entry is relevant, where they reduced compilation time from 90 minutes to 50 seconds: http://blogs.borland.com/fhaglund/archive/2006/07/03/25804.aspx Cheers, Jarle Back to top Marc Rohloff [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:22 am    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:54:54 +0200, Jarle Stabell wrote: Quote: Perhaps this blog entry is relevant, where they reduced compilation time from 90 minutes to 50 seconds: http://blogs.borland.com/fhaglund/archive/2006/07/03/25804.aspx I was thinking of this one: http://blogs.borland.com/stevet/archive/2006/02/27/23540.aspx This applies to D2006, I don't know if it affects D7. -- Marc Rohloff [TeamB] marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:39 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application No, everything is local. Every programmer has its local copy of the sources "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <newsgroups (AT) rvelthuis (DOT) de> escribió en el mensaje news:xn0eqyp1vsjna4w01a-velthuis (AT) www (DOT) teamb.com... Quote: At 18:27:31, 07.09.2006, Hechicero wrote: Hi, I want to explain it very carefully. My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). Could it be that you are compiling files that are on another computer in a network? That could be so slow, but otherwise, this is far too slow. In that case, the best you can do is to make a local copy and compile that. Is that any faster? It could also be that a virus scanner or some such is interfering. But 90 minutes to compile a project is too slow. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.de/ "Analyzing humor is like dissecting a frog. Few people are interested and the frog dies of it." -- E. B. White (1899-1985) Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Program is about 2.5 M lines of code "Gerrit Beuze" <gerrit[at]modelmaker[dot]demon[dot]nl> escribió en el mensaje news:450108f6 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Hello Esteban, My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). To kow what we're talking about: how many lines of code get actually compiled when you do a build all: 1 million, 10million? If you have compiler progress enabled the compiler progress window will show how the # of lines. Gerrit Beuze ModelMaker Tools Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application A lot more if you cout third party tools (which by the way are never rebuilded) "Hechicero" <accesosecuencial (AT) yahoo (DOT) com.ar> escribió en el mensaje news:450172c0 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Program is about 2.5 M lines of code "Gerrit Beuze" <gerrit[at]modelmaker[dot]demon[dot]nl> escribió en el mensaje news:450108f6 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Hello Esteban, My company develops a very big application in Delphi 7 that consists of 15 bpls and 1 executable without counting third party components. By very big I mean that it takes more than 1 and a half hour to rebuild everything in a Pentium 4 2GHz. (Project.. Build All). To kow what we're talking about: how many lines of code get actually compiled when you do a build all: 1 million, 10million? If you have compiler progress enabled the compiler progress window will show how the # of lines. Gerrit Beuze ModelMaker Tools Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application CPU utilization goes up to 98 percent (no other process is holding de CPU) Really I would belieave that if you have a NASA computer it takes 15 seconds to compile (because it compiles only the modified units). But 15 seconds to rebuild???? You are killing me.... Unfortunately its not my case. The compilation time I am talking about its real.... "Charles McAllister" <charles (AT) avimark (DOT) net> escribió en el mensaje news:45008eb2$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Hechicero wrote: Belive me, its true. I really find hard to belive what you say. It makes me envy. Does it takes 15 seconds to rebuild??? yes. to do a full build on 1 million lines of code takes 15 seconds on my humble machine. you didn't mention how much RAM you had available? also, you may have a virus scanner scanning the exe output during/after compiling. can you check the cpu utilization during compiling to see if Delphi really is the only process consuming CPU time? Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 6:52 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Thanks for the post, its really usefull... One of our programmers knew that tool ICARUS but we never used, that may speed compilation times "Marc Rohloff [TeamB]" <"on request"> escribió en el mensaje news:1x6avx0t2qlzt$.dlg (AT) dlg (DOT) marcrohloff.com... Quote: On Fri, 8 Sep 2006 01:54:54 +0200, Jarle Stabell wrote: Perhaps this blog entry is relevant, where they reduced compilation time from 90 minutes to 50 seconds: http://blogs.borland.com/fhaglund/archive/2006/07/03/25804.aspx I was thinking of this one: http://blogs.borland.com/stevet/archive/2006/02/27/23540.aspx This applies to D2006, I don't know if it affects D7. -- Marc Rohloff [TeamB] marc rohloff -at- myrealbox -dot- com Back to top Hechicero Guest Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2006 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: very (VERY) big application Let me add some other info... Right know the solutions you kindly suggested pointed to speeding up compilation times wich is good, but that I'd like to remind that that is not the only issue here... Because of the program size the following issues arrives. a) Inhability to debug with f7. If you press F7 your Delphi hangs up. Latately, which mostly motivated this post, arrived the following problems b) Linking errors that shows random jums from one place to another and forces to rebuild (this is VERY important) c) Components that acts different if they are executed from the exe or one of the bpls.In particularry a query that is empty if it is executed within a BPL and returs data if its invoked in the exe. The funny thing is that that happens in some machines but not in other. Can be solved if you delete the dcu and rebuild. I want to clarify that if I compile the aplication without rebuilding the compilation times are acceptable but lately we've been forced to do some rebuilds more frecuently Also I am aware that compilation times takes too long because of some highly coupled units usage that, from what I was told the Delphi Compiler (and parser works), tend to make compilation time a lot slower. If you have suggestions on how to speed up compilation time and solve that problem mentiones above the are very welcome. But what I am also looking foward is to find a way to separate the application in different modules that could be different executables for instance. So despite that any info that can help to speed up compilations are really appreciated. But also I am interested in "modularizing" the program in many independant modules that could be DLL, dynamically loaded bpls (with load library) or different Exes. Esteban Calabria Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi OO design All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.