BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  oop db app.          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi OO design View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message jorge novoa Guest Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 12:31 pm    Post subject: oop db app. I´m going to develop a db app., and i want to make it all oop, i don´t want to lose my self trying to fully use oop when i will coding the app., where is a good starting point, or recomend me a manual or tutorial. REgards Back to top Bob Dawson Guest Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 10:02 pm    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "jorge novoa" wrote Quote: I´m going to develop a db app., and i want to make it all oop, You've come to the right place--welcome! Quote: i don´t want to lose my self trying to fully use oop when i will coding the app., Not quite sure what you mean here. It sounds like you're saying that you want to use OO techniques and principles in general, but not to the extent of writing a comprehensive persistence layer. You're just trying to keep it fairly simple to start with. That about right? In the interest of focus for what simple means, why are you considering OO rather than a direct data-RAD approach? What are your design/learning goals? Knowing those, the folks here can help with recommending resources and starting points. bobD Back to top jorge novoa Guest Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 5:08 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "Bob Dawson" <bdawson (AT) idtdna (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "jorge novoa" wrote I´m going to develop a db app., and i want to make it all oop, You've come to the right place--welcome! i don´t want to lose my self trying to fully use oop when i will coding the app., Not quite sure what you mean here. It sounds like you're saying that you want to use OO techniques and principles in general, but not to the extent No, i´m talking about from past apps. i been developed, because i been started with the idea to use and implement oop in that apps. but at the end i miss and not approach a lot of oop concepts. Quote: of writing a comprehensive persistence layer. You're just trying to keep it fairly simple to start with. That about right? no, i want to completly implement oop in the app. Quote: In the interest of focus for what simple means, why are you considering OO rather than a direct data-RAD approach? Because i think the oop is the best way to programming, if you want to be a real programmer you have tu use oop i thought, besides it´s the best way to organize and control design and code. It's easier to find errors when you are debbuging. 1.The modular concept its a very amaizing concept that if you do it right you will have a very strong or solid app.. 2.Code are esay to understand. 3.You have fully control on what are you doing, i mean, for example you can create instances from classes you will only use, and you can realse them at time you which or want, and create it only if you´ll need it again, and that will save memory and further troubles. 4. The inheritance allow you to share code between apps., to create active x or dlls that any app., you can use and implement methods from classes used in another sections of the app. or even in differents apps. oop concept becomes from real life, we dialy use this concept unconscious. what if you see a chair but you didn´t know what it works(sit, rest), where it come froms(furnitures family), what properties it have(color, wheight, etc.). Well, the above are just personal thoughts hope understand. Quote: What are your design/learning goals?>Knowing those, the folks here can help with recommending resources and starting points. I don´t exactly what you mean, but the aim it´s to develop from now oop apps., where i can take the control of everithing happens inside the app., create and destroy forms, components by my self and not only delphi do the job, create and control threads, create layers on db apps. like bussiness layer, data storage, etc., create data modules for db or another use based on oop, going beyond of conventional programming. Regards, hope you can help me. Quote: bobD Back to top Joanna Carter [TeamB] Guest Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "jorge novoa" <pippen_8 (AT) todito (DOT) com> a écrit dans le message de news: 45ef45e6$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... | I don´t exactly what you mean, but the aim it´s to develop from now oop apps., where i can take the control of everithing happens inside the app., create and destroy forms, components by my self and not only delphi do the job, create and control threads, create layers on db apps. like bussiness layer, data storage, etc., create data modules for db or another use based on oop, going beyond of conventional programming. I have some articles on persistence layers (OPF) and presentation layers (MVP) on my website www.carterconsulting.org.uk . Bear in mind that these are quite old and that my designs nowadays are different in many respects. Feel free to question/argue what you find in this group; Bob and others were very helpful in providing sanity checks :-) You are embarking on a fairly major learning curve, so don't expect to grasp everything at once; keep on asking questions here if you need to, this group could do with a good wakeup :-) Joanna -- Joanna Carter [TeamB] Consultant Software Engineer Back to top Bob Dawson Guest Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "jorge novoa" wrote Sorry, pretty swamped today. In addition to Joanna's writings you should probably read this paper http://www.ambysoft.com/essays/persistenceLayer.html It's a pretty good intro to the thinking and issues involved in layered persistence. I'll try to post something more detailed by this weekend if I can. bobD Back to top Wayne Niddery [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 12:36 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. jorge novoa wrote: Quote: no, i want to completly implement oop in the app. All of us in this group are here because we are very strong advocates of OOP in general. So it's safe to say all of us would encourage you to learn and use more in your own work. However I, for one at least, would warn against jumping in with both feet and expect to still be productive enough to meet any deadlines you may have *and* also produce good code. Like most intellectual pursuits, even when one grasps the concepts, learning to *apply* them can still take a lot of time and practice and one never stops improving and adjusting ones ideas. There is no single true way to do everything "correctly", many of us have differing ideas on how any given OO model should look, e.g. whether a situation calls for inheritance or interfaces, lots of different things. I personally advocate a more manageable incremental approach. Take what you learn from each project and apply it to the next - challenging yourself but still staying on enough firm ground to ensure a successful project. If you have no deadlines to meet though, then by all means jump in all the way! <g> -- Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca) "At the apex of every great tragedy of mankind there stands the figure of an incorruptible altruist." - Ayn Rand Back to top Joanna Carter [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 1:02 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "Wayne Niddery [TeamB]" <wniddery (AT) chaffaci (DOT) on.ca> a écrit dans le message de news: 45f0577d$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... I couldn't agree more :-) Joanna -- Joanna Carter [TeamB] Consultant Software Engineer Back to top jorge novoa Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. I really appreciate all your advices and comments, i will begin read those docs. you recomendate me, i´m a programming lover and i don´t have any problem with make front to this new challenge, and i can´t be more agree in everything that you said. Thanks. I´ll be bothering you. Back to top jorge novoa Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 9:13 am    Post subject: Re: oop db app. "Wayne Niddery [TeamB]" <wniddery (AT) chaffaci (DOT) on.ca> wrote: Quote: jorge novoa wrote: no, i want to completly implement oop in the app. All of us in this group are here because we are very strong advocates of OOP in general. So it's safe to say all of us would encourage you to learn and use more in your own work. However I, for one at least, would warn against jumping in with both feet and expect to still be productive enough to meet any deadlines you may have *and* also produce good code. How do i know if im producing good code, that its hard to know, but i´m willing to learn and change whatever i need. Quote: Like most intellectual pursuits, even when one grasps the concepts, learning to *apply* them can still take a lot of time and practice and one never stops improving and adjusting ones ideas. There is no single true way to do everything "correctly", many of us have differing ideas on how any given OO model should look, e.g. whether a situation calls for inheritance or interfaces, lots of different things. I know that, and every app. i made i tried to reach oop, but i know there are too many fails on my oop programming, and i exectu to create or develop my own ideas and implment them. Quote: I personally advocate a more manageable incremental approach. Take what you learn from each project and apply it to the next - challenging yourself but still staying on enough firm ground to ensure a successful project. If you have no deadlines to meet though, then by all means jump in all the way! <g I don´t understand well this last paragraph, you´re talking about deadlines in whate you say in all this text, or you talking about deadlines on my apps. code Regards Quote: -- Wayne Niddery - Winwright, Inc (www.winwright.ca) "At the apex of every great tragedy of mankind there stands the figure of an incorruptible altruist." - Ayn Rand Back to top Guillem Guest Posted: Fri Mar 09, 2007 4:28 pm    Post subject: Re: oop db app. jorge novoa wrote: Quote: I don4t understand well this last paragraph, you4re talking about deadlines in whate you say in all this text, or you talking about deadlines on my apps. code Regards by deadlines she means dates where you are obliged to deliver your code or app to the client. "Punto final" or "fecha limite" in spanish. :-) -- Best regards :-) Guillem Vicens Meier Dep. Informatica Green Service S.A. www.clubgreenoasis.com -- Contribute to the Indy Docs project: http://docs.indyproject.org -- In order to contact me remove the -nospam Back to top SiegfriedN Guest Posted: Wed Mar 14, 2007 8:38 pm    Post subject: Re: oop db app. jorge novoa wrote: Quote: I´m going to develop a db app., and i want to make it all oop, i don´t want to lose my self trying to fully use oop when i will coding the app., where is a good starting point, or recomend me a manual or tutorial. REgards Hi Jorge, You can take oop to the extreme where it can become an obsession. It can even become counter productive. You might get different answers of what is pure oop and what is not. It takes a long time to get the experience to become an oop guru. (I am far from it!) This newsgroup will help you a lot. For starters there are a few basic Delphi RAD oop techniques you can use to take advantage of oop. 1. Always create a common custom library of components derived from the Delphi or third party ones. You can then derive project specific ones from these custom components when required. (I did not do it for the database access components) 2. Create a custom Form class derived from TForm. Create a base form derived from this class as the base class for all your forms. 3. Put all the database specific code e.g. data access components and SQL in separate units from the main business logic. You can also use datamodules for sql database server type components. This way it is easy to port from one database server to the next. (later you can perhaps look at creating a middle tier server from this) This will get you productive quickly and you can expand your oop knowledge from here. To jump into persistance layers straight away could be a steep and frustrating experience and not very productive. It takes a very long time to create your own framework! (Lots of refactoring! <g>) Look at some design patterns. Try to use a Singleton to store all your common system settings. Apply inheritance, polymorphism and encapsulation rules to your classes. All the best! 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