BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ...          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Nick Rambarransingh Guest Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2007 11:30 pm    Post subject: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Good Day All, If I have IntraWeb, why would I want Delphi with VCL for PHP ? What does the Delphi produce, a series of .php pages, a single .exe, what ? Thanks in advance, -- Nick Back to top Esteban Pacheco Guest Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:59 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Delphi for PHP doesn't have the Delphi language on it, it is PHP language, it uses a hierarchy of objects that looks very similar to the VCL. Intraweb creates web Applications, it is not page-oriented (unless you want to) and because is pure Delphi it allow us to use all the components, tricks and others that we already know (DataModules, ClientDatasets, etc). If you like php language and want a RAD tool to bring up pages and web solutions in general with it, thats your PHP solution. Att. Esteban Pacheco http://blogs.epachsoft.com "Nick Rambarransingh" <NRambarransingh (AT) zipzap (DOT) ca> wrote in message news:45fc3395$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Good Day All, If I have IntraWeb, why would I want Delphi with VCL for PHP ? What does the Delphi produce, a series of .php pages, a single .exe, what ? Thanks in advance, -- Nick Back to top Farshad Guest Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 1:55 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Delphi4Php produces PHP pages which can be deployed easily to any linux or windows server. Deployment of IntraWeb Apps requires a special server which allows you to deploy isapi dlls. However developing Web Application with IW is much more easier than PHP. Well, there are lots of other differences to mention. IN general you need IW when you want to develope stateful web application. Quote: Good Day All, If I have IntraWeb, why would I want Delphi with VCL for PHP ? What does the Delphi produce, a series of .php pages, a single .exe, what ? Thanks in advance, -- Nick Back to top Loren Szendre Guest Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 4:10 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Farshad wrote: Quote: Deployment of IntraWeb Apps requires a special server which allows you to deploy isapi dlls. Not true. I have fond that deploying as a (stand-alone) service is a very viable option. No messing with isapi dlls (yeah!). Quote: However developing Web Application with IW is much more easier than PHP. Well, there are lots of other differences to mention. IN general you need IW when you want to develope stateful web application. I don't know PHP, but IW is the best tool for building stateful apps that I have ever tried. By far. Loren Back to top Farshad Guest Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... "Loren Szendre": Quote: Not true. I have fond that deploying as a (stand-alone) service is a very viable option. No messing with isapi dlls (yeah!). I am saying that it is quite difficult to find a hosting company that allows you to deploy isapi dlls. It is even more difficult to find a hosting that accepts stand-alone services. Isapi dlls or stand-alone servers are potential security threats and any resource leak may cause valuable CPU or memory resources to be consumed in a long run. So 99% of hostings don't allow you to run a cuustom isapi dll or a custom service. For this you either need to run your own server or purchase a (virtual) dedicated server plan. There are also few hosting companies that allow you running custom applications. On the other hand, PHP files can be easily deployed to just any server on this planet without any restrictions. Back to top MRCarver Guest Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 8:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Farshad wrote: Quote: "Loren Szendre": Not true. I have fond that deploying as a (stand-alone) service is a very viable option. No messing with isapi dlls (yeah!). I am saying that it is quite difficult to find a hosting company that allows you to deploy isapi dlls. It is even more difficult to find a hosting that accepts stand-alone services. Isapi dlls or stand-alone servers are potential security threats and any resource leak may cause valuable CPU or memory resources to be consumed in a long run. So 99% of hostings don't allow you to run a cuustom isapi dll or a custom service. For this you either need to run your own server or purchase a (virtual) dedicated server plan. There are also few hosting companies that allow you running custom applications. On the other hand, PHP files can be easily deployed to just any server on this planet without any restrictions. Point well taken ! Back to top Jason Southwell Guest Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2007 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Quote: I am saying that it is quite difficult to find a hosting company that allows you to deploy isapi dlls. It is even more difficult to find a hosting that Every web host I've ever used has permitted ISAPI dlls. Back to top Farshad Guest Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 1:52 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... "Jason Southwell" Quote: Every web host I've ever used has permitted ISAPI dlls. I was talking about Windows host with shared hosting plans. My experience have shown that upto 90%-95% of shared hosts won't allow running custom isapi dlls. First of all running a isapi.dll needs some special configurations that must be done remotely. You must either ask the webmaster to do them for you or the hosting must grant you permisions to access IIS remotely. It is not simply a matter of copying a dll files in a directory. The other problem is that hostings do not want to allow any user to run native machine code on their hosts. Isapi.dlls contain native x86 code and that means a badly written code can cause some security problems and resource leaks. In IIS 6.0 you can force isapis to run in seperate address spaces so if one of them crashes the IIS will not crash as well. But it needs special configurations in IIS 6.0. For all of these reasons hosting companies won't allow isapi dlls in their shared hosts. Can you name a few companies who allow running isapis in shared plans? I definetly need one of them. The only solution is switching to a Virtual Private Server or a Dedicated Server Plan. VPS plans starts from 40$ per month. Dedicated servres start from 300$ or more. For running IntraWeb apps VPS is best choice. You will get your virtual private server and you can do just anything you want. Now compare it with deployment of PHP files which is as easy as uploading them to a server which can be Linux, SunOS, Windows etc. Back to our main discussion. Let's keep it in mind that Delphi for PHP and IntraWeb are designed for different goals. It is not a valid point if we say one is better than another. So before doing a direct comparison between two products lets ask ourselves what are we going do with each development tool? What is the goal of our application? There are certain tasks that can only be done only with Intraweb. Intraweb is a true RAD tool.You only need to know Object Pascal. Statefulness and Application mode are big advantages of IW. I've developed Intraweb apps which are able to do certain things which was nearly impossible or very difficult with any other development tool. My Intraweb apps can do bizzare things like accessing local hardware directly, communating with other apps through message channels and serial ports, monitoring hardware and etc. In this sense Intraweb gives you lots of flexilibility. On the other hand. When you want to create a web site which is mostly stateless and you want to deploy to a cheap Linux hosting then Delphi for PHP can give you power of RAD + portability of PHP. Back to top Ivan Pastine Guest Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 4:26 am    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Quote: Can you name a few companies who allow running isapis in shared plans? I definetly need one of them. http://www.dotnetpark.com/web_hosting_plans.aspx and the list maintained by atozed at: http://www.atozed.com/IntraWeb/FAQ/Hosts.EN.aspx Haven't tried any so this is just from ads. Back to top Jason Southwell Guest Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Delphi for PHP vs IntraWeb ... Quote: I was talking about Windows host with shared hosting plans. My experience have shown that upto 90%-95% of shared hosts won't allow running custom isapi dlls. First of all running a isapi.dll needs some special configurations that must be done remotely. You must either ask the webmaster to do them for you or the hosting must grant you permisions to access IIS remotely. It is not simply a matter of copying a dll files in a directory. Actually, I'm talking about shared hosting plans too... In my experience, there is usually a scripts directory on a shared host that is already set up with correct permissions such that simply uploading your dll to that folder is all you need to do to run ISAPI. Updating it is another issue because you don't want to bring down the server to update your app. That is where ISAPILoader comes into play. Quote: needs special configurations in IIS 6.0. For all of these reasons hosting companies won't allow isapi dlls in their shared hosts. Can you name a few companies who allow running isapis in shared plans? I definetly need one of them. It's been several years since I've used a shared plan as I now have several dedicated machines, but you can try defined.net. Quote: Now compare it with deployment of PHP files which is as easy as uploading them to a server which can be Linux, SunOS, Windows etc. You are vastly overcomplicating the ISAPI issue. In many cases, with a properly configured web host, it's as simple as uploading the dll. 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