BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  An alternative Delphi strategy Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Rod Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: An alternative Delphi strategy http://blogs.feedian.com/tobias/2007/05/07/an-alternative-delphi-strategy/ Back to top Ivan Rakyta Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Quote: I'm curious as to what they were doing before they "started" following MS. Following Sun? No, I think they were ahead of MS. Back to top David Clegg Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Craig wrote: Quote: I think a society should be set up for people with alternative Delphi/CodeGear/Borland strategies. There seems to be a new one every week. Agreed. I have one involving hamsters, duck tape and a large bucket of manure. -- Cheers, David Clegg dclegg (AT) gmail (DOT) com http://cc.codegear.com/Author/72299 QualityCentral. The best way to bug CodeGear about bugs. http://qc.codegear.com "If The Flintstones has taught us anything, it's that pelicans can be used to mix cement." - Homer Simpson Back to top Craig Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Quote: http://blogs.feedian.com/tobias/2007/05/07/an-alternative-delphi-strategy/ I think a society should be set up for people with alternative Delphi/CodeGear/Borland strategies. There seems to be a new one every week. Back to top yannis Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Dave Nottage [TeamB] pretended : Quote: "I’m positive that Delphi could have become the number one development tool for native Windows development if Borland kept focused and didn’t start to follow Microsoft" I'm curious as to what they were doing before they "started" following MS. Following Sun? I on the other hand I am certain that Delphi IS the number one development tool for native windows development TODAY and it has been since Delphi 1. Regards Yannis. Back to top Steve Thackery Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Quote: I on the other hand I am certain that Delphi IS the number one development tool for native windows development TODAY and it has been since Delphi 1. It is, but I don't think it's perceived that way by the programming community at large. That's the issue. Steve Back to top Dave Nottage [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue May 08, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Rod wrote: Quote: http://blogs.feedian.com/tobias/2007/05/07/an-alternative-delphi-strat egy/ "I’m positive that Delphi could have become the number one development tool for native Windows development if Borland kept focused and didn’t start to follow Microsoft" I'm curious as to what they were doing before they "started" following MS. Following Sun? -- Dave Nottage [TeamB] Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Ivan Rakyta wrote: Quote: And CodeGear is one of the top two .Net tools vendors. Second from 2? Are CodeGear and Microsoft the only vendors for .net development tools? Quote: Me too. Next version of Delphi can change it all. I'm betting that it will be for the better. -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Chris Burrows wrote: Quote: "Bruce McGee" <bmcgee (AT) glooscap (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0f5ycmc1vlcgx002 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... And CodeGear is one of the top two .Net tools vendors. What exactly does that mean? They are one of the two largest companies that develop .NET tools (in addition as other products)? They are one of the top two vendors with the highest revenue purely from sales of .NET tools? Something else? CodeGear is second only to Microsoft for .Net development tools, which I think covers revenue, number of seats and features. I think they also deserve extra credit for providing their own IDE, compiler (with advantages over .Net's) and independent cross platform class library instead of just plugging in to VS, just using reflection.emit (not the only ones, I'm sure) or relying entirely on ..Net's class libraries. Some more of the compiler advantages will come to me later, but the one that I remember of hand is that the Delphi compiler can be more aggressive when inlining. -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Chris Burrows Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy "Bruce McGee" <bmcgee (AT) glooscap (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0f5yzk52qmwex006 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: CodeGear is second only to Microsoft for .Net development tools, which I think covers revenue, number of seats and features. How is the revenue and number of seats measured? I bought BDS 2005 & 2006 but I have never used either for .NET development. My guess is that would apply to 90% of similar purchasers. Do you have access to any figures that are not guesstimates? I also bought D8 but I can't believe that anybody could be using that for serious work, so those figures should be completely omitted from any measure. All that is left that might give more accurate figures are the sales of C# Builder, Turbo C# and Turbo Delphi.NET. What is the revenue / number or seats for those? -- Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Chris Burrows wrote: Quote: How is the revenue and number of seats measured? Fair question. Quote: I bought BDS 2005 & 2006 but I have never used either for .NET development. My guess is that would apply to 90% of similar purchasers. Do you have access to any figures that are not guesstimates? So you get to use guestimates, but no one else can? Quote: I also bought D8 but I can't believe that anybody could be using that for serious work, so those figures should be completely omitted from any measure. I did. In fact, I even used Quote: All that is left that might give more accurate figures are the sales of C# Builder, Turbo C# and Turbo Delphi.NET. What is the revenue / number or seats for those? t least some of the people who bought BDS 2006 and C# Builder and downloaded the .net Turbos are using them for .Net development. But you're right, I don't have any revenue numbers. Perhaps you can suggest who the top .Net development tools vendors are. Feel free to guestimate a little. -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Chris Burrows Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 7:44 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy "Bruce McGee" <bmcgee (AT) glooscap (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0f5z0li2s4yn3008 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Chris Burrows wrote: I bought BDS 2005 & 2006 but I have never used either for .NET development. My guess is that would apply to 90% of similar purchasers. Do you have access to any figures that are not guesstimates? So you get to use guestimates, but no one else can? Sure you can but they are only as valid as mine - i.e. fairly meaningless. Quote: Perhaps you can suggest who the top .Net development tools vendors are. Feel free to guestimate a little. My guesstimate is that the top two are Microsoft 95%, Others 5%. -- Chris Burrows CFB Software http://www.cfbsoftware.com/gpcp Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Jolyon Smith wrote: Quote: In article <xn0f5yzk52qmwex006 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Bruce McGee says... Just curious. See my response to Chris. I got over-enthusiastic and made a claim that I can't substantiate. I think it's accurate, but have no numbers to back it up. Quote: Mostly. Some of the IDE comes from Microsoft aiui, and some of the language features are in turn demanded by this choice. Just the WinForms designer, C#/VB.Net compilers and MSBuild as far as I know. I'm not sure what you mean by this affecting language features. Quote: One could argue that the resources required to develop and maintain a look-a-like IDE could be better deployed on providing a materially different and improved IDE, or, if you want to lokk-a-like, in not development and maintaining an IDE at all, but instead on concentrating on the language and leveraging Microsofts vastly superior resources. Let them put the donkey work into the IDE, while you churn out the best gosh-darned languages that that IDE can use. Yes, one could argue this, but I wouldn't agree with them. For expediency, let's just simplify it down to not wanting CodeGear to be (even more) at the mercy of Microsoft's release schedule and the features they allow in the IDE. And doesn't the VSIP license keep you from writing any competing IDEs? Even JBuilder in Eclipse? Not that Microsoft has ever bullied competitors (or partners), but this seems risky. Quote: or relying entirely on .Net's class libraries. I thought the richness of the .net framework was supposed to be a great reason for using .net? Yup, there are definitely some cool things. But why be limited to .net's framework? WinForms/FCL are .Net only, and the VCL isn't. And since I'm not only using .Net... Besides, if I don't mind the project being .Net only (and some will be), I can use VCL.Net, WinForms or a combination of the two and still have access to the entire FCL. -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Bruce McGee Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy Jolyon Smith wrote: See my response to Chris. Quote: I thought the richness of the .net framework was supposed to be a great reason for using .net? But why be limited to it? -- Regards, Bruce McGee Glooscap Software Back to top Jolyon Smith Guest Posted: Wed May 09, 2007 8:12 am    Post subject: Re: An alternative Delphi strategy In article <xn0f5yzk52qmwex006 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, Bruce McGee says... Quote: CodeGear is second only to Microsoft for .Net development tools, which I think covers revenue, number of seats and features. Taking each measure individually could place CodeGear in any number of positions for each measure. What algorithm are you applying to each measure to arrive at a placement of "2nd" for CodeGear overall? Just curious. Quote: I think they also deserve extra credit for providing their own IDE Mostly. Some of the IDE comes from Microsoft aiui, and some of the language features are in turn demanded by this choice. Quote: compiler (with advantages over .Net's) ..net has a framework compiler for ObjectPascal? WOW! I guess "it exists" is an advantage though. ;) Quote: instead of just plugging in to VS ....and attempting to mimic it instead. One could argue that the resources required to develop and maintain a look-a-like IDE could be better deployed on providing a materially different and improved IDE, or, if you want to lokk-a-like, in not development and maintaining an IDE at all, but instead on concentrating on the language and leveraging Microsofts vastly superior resources. Let them put the donkey work into the IDE, while you churn out the best gosh-darned languages that that IDE can use. Quote: or relying entirely on .Net's class libraries. I thought the richness of the .net framework was supposed to be a great reason for using .net? Weird. -- Jolyon Smith Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.