BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 11, 12, 13  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message MichaelLi Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:16 am    Post subject: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Borland would no longer develop further edition of C++Builder? Is BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Why? Is there a definitely answer to this? Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:37 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3f961395$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... It is presumed, but unknown Not true. It has already been stated by Borland that CBX is the new C++Builder. as Borland has promised 2 "Open Letters" (the first of which has been twice delayed, and the delivery date is now unknown), that this is the case. The letters reveil Borland's plans for CBX and VCL's future in CBX. They do not confirm or deny that BCB is no longer continuing, because that has already been announced earlier on. Gambit Remy, With all due respect, CBX as it stands now is not a replacement for BCB. It has very little functionality, there is no updated VCL support, etc. Just because Borland 'calls it' the new C++ Builder does not make it so. I could call myself a Cadillac, but wouldn't look very spiffy in my garage. The promised "Open Letters" will, perhaps, iterate the plans for CBX that will allow it to SOMEDAY be viewed as a replacment for BCB, but as it stands now, it certainly isn't. I'm not doubting that it can be a useful C++ tool, but it is NOT currently a replacement for BCB. David Erbas-White Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:54 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote Quote: With all due respect, CBX as it stands now is not a replacement for BCB. With all due respect, I never said that CBX is a replacement. I said that CBX is the successor to BCB. The existing BCB line is stopped, CBX is the new line. I agree that in its *current* form, it is nowhere near BCB's functionality. It wasn't supposed to be so Day 1. It is, however, continuing to progress towards that end. In the meantime, there is no reason why people cannot continue to use the current BCB line for maintaining current products. Quote: It has very little functionality, there is no updated VCL support, etc. I'm not even going to go into that, those issues have already been argued to death over and over since CBX's release. Anyone interested in getting into them can go read and join the other discussion threads. Gambit Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3f96177d$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... With all due respect, CBX as it stands now is not a replacement for BCB. With all due respect, I never said that CBX is a replacement. I said that CBX is the successor to BCB. No, your exact quote was that "It has already been stated by Borland that CBX is the new C++Builder." I would agree with your statement (if slightly modified) that CBX is BORLAND'S idea of a successor to BCB, but only time will tell if the community views it as such. I would argue that it is a completely new and different product line, and is the start of a new 'branch' in Borland's C++ product history, and that the BCB 'branch' has ended with BCB6. In that context, it is not a successor, it is simply the C++ tool that those who wish to buy Borland products will be forced to go with. The existing BCB line is stopped, CBX is the Quote: new line. I agree that in its *current* form, it is nowhere near BCB's functionality. It wasn't supposed to be so Day 1. It is, however, continuing to progress towards that end. In the meantime, there is no reason why people cannot continue to use the current BCB line for maintaining current products. It has very little functionality, there is no updated VCL support, etc. I'm not even going to go into that, those issues have already been argued to death over and over since CBX's release. Anyone interested in getting into them can go read and join the other discussion threads. Agreed... <G> Quote: Gambit David Erbas-White Back to top Digby Millikan Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:01 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Is there any idea of the number of BCB users who need to maintain VCL products, how does this rate as a marketing point from Borlands veiwpoint. Digby Millikan http://www.user.on.net/digbym Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:10 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Digby Millikan wrote: Quote: Is there any idea of the number of BCB users who need to maintain VCL products, how does this rate as a marketing point from Borlands veiwpoint. Digby Millikan http://www.user.on.net/digbym Borland doesn't even say how many unit sales there are of their products, so don't expect that they will provide numbers that are a sub-set of that group. I would have to say (as purely uninformed speculation) that whatever the number is, it is less than the number that Borland required to continue the BCB product line. However, I think they miscalculated on the 'ill will' that dropping the product line so precipitously would generate. David Erbas-White Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 7:27 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I would agree with your statement (if slightly modified) that CBX is BORLAND'S idea of a successor to BCB, but only time will tell if the community views it as such. Whether the community thinks so or not, CBX is here to stay for the forseeable future. Quote: I would argue that it is a completely new and different product line, and is the start of a new 'branch' in Borland's C++ product history, and that the BCB 'branch' has ended with BCB6. Correct. Just as BCB is not the first "branch", I'm sure CBX won't be the last. As long as C++ exists and is used, I'm sure Borland will have a C++ product of some kind. Quote: In that context, it is not a successor, it is simply the C++ tool that those who wish to buy Borland products will be forced to go with. Nobody is *forced* to do anything. They *choose* whether to move forward or not. It depends on their actual needs. There are people who never went down the BCB way, they stick with BC++ (or other). Gambit Back to top Digby Millikan Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 8:49 am    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Does Borland offer upgrade prices from BCB5 to X Digby Millikan Geolite Mining Systems http://www.users.on.net/digbym Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 12:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Quote: Nobody is *forced* to do anything. They *choose* whether to move forward or not. It depends on their actual needs. There are people who never went down the BCB way, they stick with BC++ (or other). Well I don't exactly agree with this. If BCB6 was more stable and less buggy, then maybe. It seems to me that in order to get an ide that works correctly we are forced to either port to CBX or someone else's product. We've stuck with Borland so far as it would be a monumental task to switch to say VC++ for example. If Borland isn't going to provide some method of easily converting to the new product though, this may be a decision point for us. Just my 2 cents. Worth every penny. Back to top Rodolfo Frino Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Quote: Not true. It has already been stated by Borland that CBX is the new C++Builder. If the new CBX does not include the VCL frameworks, as it seems to be the case, then your statement is innacurate and misleading. C++ Builder is (or was) a product that includes the VCL, anything else is not C++ Builder. Rodolfo Back to top Jeff Weir Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? David Erbas-White wrote: Quote: Borland doesn't even say how many unit sales there are of their products, so don't expect that they will provide numbers that are a sub-set of that group. From the Octane and Delphi Q&A on bdn.borland.com: <quote> There are now over 2 million active Win32 developers between Borland® DelphiTM and Borland® C++Builder®, and the Borland commitment to this development community has not changed. </quote> Just thought you might find the number and the reference to C++Builder interesting. regards, jeff Back to top David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 3:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Jeff Weir wrote: Quote: David Erbas-White wrote: Borland doesn't even say how many unit sales there are of their products, so don't expect that they will provide numbers that are a sub-set of that group. From the Octane and Delphi Q&A on bdn.borland.com: quote There are now over 2 million active Win32 developers between Borland® DelphiTM and Borland® C++Builder®, and the Borland commitment to this development community has not changed. /quote Just thought you might find the number and the reference to C++Builder interesting. regards, jeff How do you interpret this to show the number of C++ Builder users? The best you ever hear is that Delphi far outsells C++ Builder. Thus, you can't use a 'percentage' to determine how many of that 2 million are BCB users. Further, where in the world do the come up with stating "2 million active Win32 developers"? How do they know how many people who bought, for example, Delphi 5, but are still using it (haven't upgraded)? How do they know how many bought both Delphi and BCB? How many bought it as "shelfware"? I have purchased every version of Delphi from 1-5 and BCB 1-5 (haven't bought any since version 5). I actively use BCB5, and occasionally use D5 (in support of the BCB projects). How would I be counted? Since that is 9 separate products I bought, would I count as 9 users? Since there are two separate product lines, does it count as 2? Or, is the reality of my situation (one user for those 9 products) even taken into account? That number is pure marketing fluff, unless there is breakdown data to support it. David Erbas-White Back to top Yu-Chen Hsueh Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Digby, Yes, upgrade pricing is available for BCB5 owners. Please see below. BCBX Enterprise: http://shop.borland.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=606846&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=39 696&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0 BCBX Developer: http://shop.borland.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?V1=607326&PN=1&SP=10023&xid=39 696&DSP=&CUR=840&PGRP=0&CACHE_ID=0 -- YH -- -- Any e-mail sent to me from the newsgroups will be ignored. Please confine your posts to the newsgroups and DO NOT reply to this e-mail account. Back to top CrewGBR Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? "Digby Millikan" <digbym (AT) internode (DOT) on.net> wrote Quote: Does Borland offer upgrade prices from BCB5 to X Not only unpgrade prices, Borland even offers 40% off those upgrade prices just to lure people in. I doubt there will be many willing to pay though. CBX as it stands now, is not attractive to any group of programmers. Back to top Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr. Guest Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2003 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Is the BCB6 the end of the C++Builder? Quote: I would agree with your statement (if slightly modified) that CBX is BORLAND'S idea of a successor to BCB, but only time will tell if the community views it as such. Whether the community thinks so or not, CBX is here to stay for the forseeable future. Remy....you think you're going to win good favor of the developer community with that sort of retort ? David respectfully disagreed with you, and this is how you answer ? Personally, this is the sort of attitude that has caused enmity during this whole fiasco of a product launch. Quote: I would argue that it is a completely new and different product line, and is the start of a new 'branch' in Borland's C++ product history, and that the BCB 'branch' has ended with BCB6. Correct. Just as BCB is not the first "branch", I'm sure CBX won't be the last. As long as C++ exists and is used, I'm sure Borland will have a C++ product of some kind. In that context, it is not a successor, it is simply the C++ tool that those who wish to buy Borland products will be forced to go with. Nobody is *forced* to do anything. They *choose* whether to move forward or not. It depends on their actual needs. There are people who never went down the BCB way, they stick with BC++ (or other). Yeah, Remy, just like if you really want support for your desktops, you "choose" to upgrade your Windows OS to a newer one. Right........that's the same argument Microsoft used during their Anti-Trust case. Again, another splendid display of "Customer-oriented" thinking. 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