 |
BorlandTalk.com
Borland discussion newsgroups
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Saulo I. Regis
Guest
|
 Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 3:44 pm Post subject: It's all about Applications |
 |
|
Back in the 80's when the IBM/PC hardware platform & MS-DOS was launched to
compete with Steve Job's Apple microcomputers the battle was decided by
which platform offered more Applications running on it.
I still remember that full page magazine ads, Byte - PC Magazine - PC
World...., showing Charles Chaplin (The Tramp) holding a pile of "software
packages" that an IBM/PC could run (where you could see the most famous
softwares of that age like Word Star and others).
The same thing happened when the dispute was about GUI OS'es... Windows was
choosen over Apple's MacIntosh in the 90's for the same reason: available
applications.
And here we are in the beginning of the 00's!
For many reasons a new OS is challeging MS Windows dominance nowadays:
Linux!
Linux is being now heavily backed not only by IBM but also by many
governmental agencies from Europe, Asia and South America.
IBM is spending an already reserved US$ 1 BILLION to evolve Linux!
China announced just 2 months ago the creation of a US$ 10 BILLIONS gov
effort to develop the Chinese Linux.
These numbers speak by themselves. May be Linux plays a small role TODAY...
but this will change in the near upcoming years. It's already changing each
day!
------------
Don't take me wrong! I'm not an anti-MS guy!
I'm a businessman that has open vision to see the facts! And that makes
defensive movements to protect my major investment: my source code!
From this perspective I choosed C++ language to code my current and future
Applications!
------------
So... again, Applications will dictate which OS will be mostly adopted!
MS is offering a brand new OS based on a brand new technology they call .NET
(LongHorn... whatever).
So they need that .NET will born with as many, or more, Applications
available as possible.
Today the vast majority of all existent Applications are CODED to run over
Windows 32! And many of the GOOD corporate and desktop Applications are
written in Delphi/VCL (and some in BCB/VCL).
That is so truth... that David I. was proud to announce to Mr. Bill Gates,
in person and face-to-face, the following:
"... I mentioned how easy we've allowed our millions of Delphi developers
to move their applications to .NET (most applications can be migrated by a
recompile using VCL for .NET).".
You can read the whole story here
http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32063,00.html
What can happen if one day David I. will meet Linus Torvalds and says:
"... I mentioned how easy we've allowed our millions of Delphi developers
to move their applications to LINUX (most applications can be migrated by a
recompile using VCL for LINUX)."?
I'll tell you:
There will be a medium size industry with 500 workstations running a Delphi
ERP... APPLICATION. The Delphi ERP vendor will generate this application in
2 "flavors" with almost ... No Effort (Thanks... David!)... one for .NET and
another for Linux.
The software vendor will offer the new release of its ERP APPLICATION to the
medium size industry at the exactly momment they will be having to decide to
which OS platform they will jump (since MS will have just announced the "end
of WIN32" and the release of .NET).
To adopt .NET the medium size industry will have to buy new licenses from MS
and, may be, it'll cost something as US$ 1 million!
To adopt LINUX, since the ERP APPLICATION they are ALREADY USING also runs
over it, they will expend US$ 200k.
Which one will they choose?
I really don't know... but I can tell you that if this scenario becomes a
reality... Linux would increase its market share to 30% - 40% in a question
of very few years!
And that is something that MS will make EVERYTHING to avoid!
And to make this happen... Borland must port VCL ... as is... to Linux!
And this is a billionaire game. So don't think that it would not be
profitable to Borland!
Just my 2 cents...
Saulo
|
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:25 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
At 17:44:04, 30.05.2004, Saulo I. Regis wrote:
| Quote: | What can happen if one day David I. will meet Linus Torvalds and says:
"... I mentioned how easy we've allowed our millions of Delphi
developers to move their applications to LINUX (most applications can
be migrated by a recompile using VCL for LINUX)."?
|
Have you ever heard of Kylix? The port of Delphi apps to Linux is
probably easier than to .NET. Problem is, that Linux seems to be a moving
target. A Kylix which works on one Linux will not necessarily work on one
with a newer or just a different kernel. You'll hardly see this happen
with Windows.
Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Chris Gordon-Smith
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
| Quote: |
Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
|
I give in. Why?
--
Chris Gordon-Smith
London
Homepage: http://graffiti.virgin.net/c.gordon-smith/
Email Address: Please see my Home Page
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Jeff Douglass
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 4:55 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
I am a bit confused by your decision. Please help me out.
You state:
| Quote: | These numbers speak by themselves. May be Linux plays a small role
TODAY...
but this will change in the near upcoming years. It's already changing
each
day!
------------
Don't take me wrong! I'm not an anti-MS guy!
I'm a businessman that has open vision to see the facts! And that makes
defensive movements to protect my major investment: my source code!
From this perspective I choosed C++ language to code my current and future
Applications!
|
If I understand what your are saying, that you believe Linux will possibly
grow in larger market share, then why have your choosen C++ as your current
and future language for applications when application development is tied to
avialable languages and toolsets and currenty there is not much of a choice
of C++ cross platform toolsets to allow your applications to run on Win and
Linux as opposed to Java which already supports these and many other
platforms. I ask this because I too, as a businessman and programmer with a
open vision, am looking at the same situation and the only option that I
have come up with is to move all my applications and development from C++ to
Java for the following reasons.
1) Cross platform appplication capability (Write once/Run everywhere).
2) Cross platform and open source development tools ( NetBeans,
Eclipse......)
3) Much better GUI performance in newer JRE for Swing, as opposed to older
versions, making Java based GUI app development a viable alternative to C++
4) Investiment in a platform and toolset that has much less of a
possiblility for End of Life problems that we all have been faced with using
BCB (my opinion)
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that as a language Java is better than
C++ and that as a development environment NetBeans or Eclipse is better that
BCB. I am just saying that to me, from a business point of view, the Java
soulition has much less risk associated with it from a long term point of
view while also providing a larger, more supported range of target platforms
and therefore a larger potential market place for my products. An example of
this is the fact that I have a customer that likes my product, a BCB/Windows
based Network Management Soulution, but they have the requirement that the
product run on solaris. In this case, since my product was based on
BCB/VCL/WIndows, I can not meet there requirements and will loose out on a
very profitable system ( around USD 150K). On the other hand. if the product
was Java based it would not be a problem.
Please explain you decision, and reasons for that decision, in greater
detail so I may better understand. I have alot of respect for other's
knowledge and am always interested in what others are thinking and doing so
as to englighten myself.
Thanks again.
Jeff
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Leroy Casterline
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:06 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" <rvelthuis (AT) gmx (DOT) de> wrote:
| Quote: | Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
|
Uh, 'cause it was a very poor implementation of a good idea<g>?
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
john blackburn
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
| Quote: | If I understand what your are saying, that you believe Linux will possibly
grow in larger market share, then why have your choosen C++ as your
current and future language for applications when application development
is tied to avialable languages and toolsets and currenty there is not much
of a choice of C++ cross platform toolsets to allow your applications to
run on Win and Linux as opposed to Java which already supports these and
many other platforms. I ask this because I too, as a businessman and
programmer with a
open vision, am looking at the same situation and the only option that I
have come up with is to move all my applications and development from C++
to Java for the following reasons.
|
Take a look at "Bitter Brew" in :-
http://www.intranetjournal.com/features/blacksun.shtml
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Martin Waldenburg
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) schrieb:
| Quote: | Problem is, that Linux seems to be a moving target.
A Kylix which works on one Linux will not necessarily work on one
with a newer or just a different kernel.
|
lame excuse.
I haven't had much problems to install Kylix-Delphi on
a few dozend distros, including some of the newest.
The bugs are he same on every distro.
| Quote: | Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
|
Because it is so buggy.
There aren't enough masochists in Borlands userbase.
Martin
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kenneth de Camargo
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
Chris Gordon-Smith wrote:
| Quote: | Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
I give in. Why?
|
Probably waiting for the emptying of the Open Letter queue.
--
Ken
http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/
* this is not a sig *
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saulo I. Regis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
| Quote: | Please explain you decision, and reasons for that decision, in greater
detail so I may better understand. I have alot of respect for other's
knowledge and am always interested in what others are thinking and doing
so
as to englighten myself.
|
For just one major reason that predefines all others details...
C/C++ is beneath the infra-structure of the IT Industry!
Just for that!
Saulo
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
At 18:50:47, 30.05.2004, Chris Gordon-Smith wrote:
| Quote: | Rudy Velthuis (TeamB) wrote:
Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
I give in. Why?
|
1. Linux is a moving target.
2. They can probably make more meony with focussing on Windows and .NET,
right now.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I'm always amazed to hear of air crash victims so badly mutilated
that they have to be identified by their dental records. What I can't
understand is, if they don't know who you are, how do they know who
your dentist is?" -- Paul Merton.
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
At 19:06:29, 30.05.2004, Leroy Casterline wrote:
| Quote: | "Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" <rvelthuis (AT) gmx (DOT) de> wrote:
Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
Uh, 'cause it was a very poor implementation of a good idea<g>?
|
I don't think the implementation was poor, actually.
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood
by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's
the exact opposite."
- Paul Dirac (1902-1984)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Peter Agricola
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:30 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" wrote:
| Quote: | I give in. Why?
1. Linux is a moving target.
2. They can probably make more meony with focussing on Windows and .NET,
right now.
|
There are not many users for Kylix because of it's stupid design wich needs
a special Borland version of the Qt library.
And not to mention all the other problems with bugs en no patches etc. The
same old boring story.
Peter
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Saulo I. Regis
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
"Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)" <rvelthuis (AT) gmx (DOT) de> escreveu na mensagem
news:xn0diw7c2dtj5n00r-moderator (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
| Quote: | Have you ever heard of Kylix?
|
Yes. Kylix miss a lot of VCL components. It was sold as the first stage of a
cross-platform development tool. It has a lot to evolve!
I'm talking about the birth of an effective cross-platform tool from
Borland. And in this regard C++ plays the major role!
| Quote: | The port of Delphi apps to Linux is
probably easier than to .NET.
|
May be. But Borland is commited to make VCL .NET evolve while it's saying
nothing about VCL evolving as a cross-platform framework.
| Quote: | Problem is, that Linux seems to be a moving
target. A Kylix which works on one Linux will not necessarily work on one
with a newer or just a different kernel. You'll hardly see this happen
with Windows.
|
I see this happen everyday with Windows and its various flavors!
| Quote: | Oh, Kylix is currently on hold, but guess why.
|
For many reasons that Borland should tell us!
| Quote: | "Sometimes a scream is better than a thesis."
- Ralph Waldo Emerson (1803-1882)
|
"Sometimes a scream can change everything."
Saulo I. Regis (2004)
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Dennis Landi
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:45 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
"Peter Agricola" <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote in message
| Quote: | There are not many users for Kylix because of it's stupid design wich
needs
a special Borland version of the Qt library.
And not to mention all the other problems with bugs en no patches etc. The
same old boring story.
|
Bingo. The Kylix failure is directly related to that, and not the
"fickleness" of the Borland customers who refuse to invest in such an
obviously flawed design, until its fixed.
-d
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
Guest
|
| Posted: Sun May 30, 2004 6:48 pm Post subject: Re: It's all about Applications |
|
|
At 20:30:02, 30.05.2004, Peter Agricola wrote:
| Quote: | There are not many users for Kylix because of it's stupid design wich
needs a special Borland version of the Qt library.
|
I won't discuss whether it was stupid, but that may be one reason as
well. <g>
--
Rudy Velthuis (TeamB)
"I think there is a world market for maybe five computers."
-- Thomas Watson (1874-1956), Chairman of IBM, 1943
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
