BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  It's not the developer's fault!          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Rick Carter Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: It's not the developer's fault!   Rick Carter carterrk (AT) despammed (DOT) com Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group --- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com Back to top Rick Carter Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:03 pm    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! Whoops! Sent that one too soon! Interesting article: http://www.adtmag.com/article.aspx?id=18205 Rick Carter carterrk (AT) despammed (DOT) com Chair, Delphi/Paradox SIG, Cincinnati PC Users Group --- posted by geoForum on http://delphi.newswhat.com Back to top John Herbster Guest Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! "Rick Carter" <carterrk (AT) despammed (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Whoops! Sent that one too soon! That's OK -- It is not your fault. <g> Back to top Fergus Dixon Guest Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 12:03 am    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! Have to agree that secure coding is pretty important. There is an urban myth of a rocket which gets fired into space. Later on a bigger rocket is built but when launched, it explodes due to a 16bit number rolling over in the software. Lately, I have been using splint code checking tool which (freeware) but I think this focuses more on style than problems. It can be very annoying to send out a program which has ben checked thoroughly, only to have the user find a problem within a few hours due to some poorly tested routine. Even more frustrating is being able to do the fix in 5minutes after wasting several hours describing what the problem really is and how it slipped through. Anyone had a fault caused by a spelling mistake? I would have thought that programs like CodeGuard have a big future. It is a shame that the new CEO still believes he is working for Micrsoft by dismantling I mean selling off Delphi. "John Herbster" <herb-sci1_at_sbcglobal.net> wrote in message news:442c1d3a (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: "Rick Carter" <carterrk (AT) despammed (DOT) com> wrote Whoops! Sent that one too soon! That's OK -- It is not your fault. g Back to top Jacob Thurman Guest Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:03 am    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! Quote: There is an urban myth of a rocket which gets fired into space. Later on a bigger rocket is built but when launched, it explodes due to a 16bit number rolling over in the software. Not really an urban myth... The rocket was the Araine 5, which exploded June 4, 1996 after a 64bit floating point value was converted to a 16bit signed integer. The incident is pretty well documented in the book "The Science of Debugging" by Matt Telles and Yuan Hsieh. --Jacob Back to top Fergus Dixon Guest Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:03 am    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! Jacob, thanks for the info. I guessed it may have been true, but only heard about it from someone else. Sounds like a good book. Here is a link to some more detail: http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/02/regulation_liab.html or in full: 1) The software engineer is the systems engineer of last resort. (Thanks to Dave Emery) In other words, the most difficult parts of any system design tend to get pushed into the software, especially when managers and financial people make systems level decisions. 2) A hierarchical system (company, project, etc.) means that someone up the chain of command will be making decisions who doesn't understand the software--and has probably never read it. The classic case of this was the Ariane 501 disaster. The final report glosses over just how horrific this case was. The flight guidance software was actually developed as part of an Ariane 4 upgrade, and the developers were not told (or even allowed to know when they asked) what the system parameters for the Ariane 5 were. So they put helpful notes in the code for whoever adapted it for the Ariane 5. Then some bean counter decided that since the flight control system hadn't changed, the software could be reused unchanged--without review or testing. Many people know that the guidance computers shut down (as instructed) when the Ariane 5 reached a point within 40 seconds that the Ariane 4 could never reach. This caused an overflow that the software treated as a hardware error--we can't be there. Of course, both computers reached the same conclusion a few hundreths of a second apart. But that is not the worst of it. The debugging information was sent to the engine controllers, which read it as guidance information and selected for maximum deflection of the engines. Of course, the maximum deflection selected was based on the moments of the Ariane 4. The Ariane 5 stack came apart in mid-air. Following the careful analysis in the report, you might think that this was a sequence of unanticipated events. Well it was. However, if the course selected for the first Araine 5 had been slightly different, or if there had been a bit more wind, the engines could have deflected beyond the Araine 5 structural limits anyway. A similar set of disasters involved the Airbus 320. I don't want to go into all the details, but the (multi-version) software implemented the requirements, and the requirements forgot to include staying above the ground. (The deadly case was when the glide path for the runway was underground at the last waypoint. The waypoint would be crossed at the specified altitude, and the autopilot would then try to put the plane on the glide path as quickly as possible.) As I see it the only way to avoid these types of disasters is to have software (or safety) engineers completely outside the project/company structure. And the only way that is going to happen is if the companies can't get liability insurance otherwise. "Jacob Thurman" <jacob (AT) twodesk (DOT) com> wrote in message news:442c796f (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: There is an urban myth of a rocket which gets fired into space. Later on a bigger rocket is built but when launched, it explodes due to a 16bit number rolling over in the software. Not really an urban myth... The rocket was the Araine 5, which exploded June 4, 1996 after a 64bit floating point value was converted to a 16bit signed integer. The incident is pretty well documented in the book "The Science of Debugging" by Matt Telles and Yuan Hsieh. --Jacob Back to top John Kaster (Borland) Guest Posted: Fri Mar 31, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Re: It's not the developer's fault! John Herbster wrote: Quote: That's OK -- It is not your fault. ROFL! -- John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com Get source: http://cc.borland.com If it's not here, it's not happening: http://ec.borland.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.