BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  It's Wednesday, and... Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message David Erbas-White Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:25 pm    Post subject: It's Wednesday, and... Here it is on Wednesday, the week of BorCon. I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see what's going on. Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon. Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group). Just a thought... David Erbas-White Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:04 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see what's going on. Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon. Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group). Frankly, there were surprisingly very few CBX-related sessions, whereas there were quite a few for Delphi. However, there were a couple of CBX session and information was released, such as the following (just to name a few): 1) CBX is targetting more platforms and more of the overall C++ marketplace (there is much more out there than just VCL for Windows). Win32/GUI development is just a piece of the overall market, and with Microsoft pushing away the native developers in favor of .Net, Borland wants to be there to pick up the slack for the Win32 users, and then to branch out in the other platforms where C++ is in high demand (Unix, mobile, etc) as well. As such... 2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later. 3) There is a v2.0 release of CBX in the works, targetted for release within the next few months. 4) CBX v2.0 will include the full featured compiler, the full featured Designer and Object Inspector (they did demonstrate the current Designer and it did work for a couple of different frameworks, namely wxWindows and Java Beans for demonstration purposes). 5) Many VCL who did attend the CBX sessions did (quite verbally and articulately) voice their concerns, frustrations, and wishes for VCL's future with C++. As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the new CBX environment using the current VCL (whether that will be BCB's or Delphi's current VCL, they did not say - hopefully it will be the latter). 6) If/Once implemented, the VCL bridge will allow current projects to be brought into the CBX IDE and maintained from there instead of needing BCB anymore. However, the VCL probably *will not* be updated any further after that point. Win32/VCL development as it currently stands is not being focused on anymore for long-term plans, expect for in Delphi. In C++, it would only be a stepping stone to allow existing projects to live on within the CBX environement using the existing VCL until the programmer sees fit to eventually migrate their code to one of several new future directions later on as Longhorn approaches release. Namely, either re-write the code to use the wxWindows framework for cross-platforms, or else re-write the code to Managed C++ for .NET (which CBX will eventually support directly, possibly with VCL.Net from Delphi v in order to continue with Windows-only development. Microsoft is really pushing Windows developers to .Net, and Borland is following along with that strategy. Borland does recognize that Win32 is not dead yet, and that Longhorn (the next version of Windows) is several years away, and that current applications need to be maintained. Thus the VCL bridge will probably be included in the meantime to keep things rolling until then. 7) ActiveX/COM and other existing BCB technologies will probably be introduced into CBX later on as well (and yes, they will probably get new updates for fixes to existing problems and such, at least at first). 8) TELL BORLAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IN CBX AND WHY!!!!!! Send an email to [email]cpp_open_letter (AT) borland (DOT) com[/email] and make your voices heard! I didn't write down any specific notes while I was there, this is coming from memory, so I may be a little off in a couple of details. I'm sure others will step in with corrections/elaborations. Gambit Back to top Ken de Camargo Jr. Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 10:58 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Rob Allen wrote: Quote: Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? The same thought occurred to me, yes. -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: However, there were a couple of CBX session and information was released, such as the following (just to name a few): Thanks Remy, this is useful to know! -- Kristofer Back to top Rob Allen Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... In message <3faa1be6$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, "Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" <gambit47.no.spam (AT) no (DOT) spam.yahoo.com> writes Quote: Thanks Remy for the report. Most enlightening and answers my most pressing questions enough for me to be prepared to wait for BCBX to get there. Quote: 2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later. Quote: As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the new CBX environment using the current VCL Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? :) -- Rob Allen Back to top Graeme Prentice Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:26:58 +0000, Rob Allen <robng (AT) the-allens (DOT) net> wrote: Quote: As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the new CBX environment using the current VCL Why is it called a bridge? Quote: Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? What advantage are you expecting VCL in CBX to have over BCB6? A stable IDE? Graeme Back to top Marvin Weingarden Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being available across various platforms and accessible through different languages? I work in the Windows only environment and only with BCB (and VCL) - what should I be looking at to prepare for the upcoming changes? Marvin Weingarden Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 12:05 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Well, the next version of Windows (LongHorn) is supposed to be written entirely in .NET with a Win32 compatibility layer *on top*. Thus WIn32 apps will be (slightly) slower than .NET ones and may not have all the .NET features - so they will be "second class citizens". This probably explains why borland are looking elsewhere for C++ IDEs as C++ will probably not be a major language under .NET. (Managed C++ seems to be a bit of a 'bodge' to some people) Whether this is a good idea or not (for MS to have done) is debatable. Don't forget that you can continue to use BCB6 to develop Win32 apps until MS completely remove support for Win32 so it's not a major problem - but you probably ought to look at writing .NET apps in future. HTH Pete "Marvin Weingarden" <mweingarden (AT) greeninginc (DOT) com> wrote Quote: What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being available across various platforms and accessible through different languages? I work in the Windows only environment and only with BCB (and VCL) - what should I be looking at to prepare for the upcoming changes? Back to top Michael Brazee Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 1:29 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... "Graeme Prentice" <invalid (AT) paradise (DOT) net.nz> wrote Quote: On Thu, 6 Nov 2003 11:26:58 +0000, Rob Allen wrote: snip Why is it called a bridge? Has anybody seen the bridge, where's that confounded bridge? The Crunge - Led Zeppelin Mike Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:26 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Graeme Prentice wrote: Quote: Why is it called a bridge? Obviously because it's something meant to get you from one bank to the other, and definitely not something to hang out on for a prolonged time. I myself find it disquieting, but it is clear that Borland doesn't think C++ and VCL have a common future. Quote: What advantage are you expecting VCL in CBX to have over BCB6? A stable IDE? None, it'll probably be the same VCL with roughly the same (at best) IDE support. Clearly Borland is not intending to make the BCBX a real VCL tool, but at most to support the VCL enough to allow BCB users to cross the river. -- Kristofer Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Marvin Weingarden wrote: Quote: What is the difference between .Net and Win/32, other than .Net being available across various platforms and accessible through different languages? you mean, except for a universe's worth of differences, what other differences are there? <g>. BTW full .NET support is *not* available on multiple platforms, and probably never will be (it's not in Microsoft's interest, I guess). -- Kristofer Back to top Marco Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 2:53 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Thank you for your information. My situation is as follows: I should start writing a complex GUI-Application for several platforms. Since there is no form designer at present time in CBX what do you suggest to do. Start the development with the BCB 6.0 form designer and then port it to CBX later. Is it possible to port it without rewriting it? or Start the development with CBX without form designer doing the work manually. Thanks Regards Marco Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: "David Erbas-White" <derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3fa978c4$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... I just took a peek in the Delphi non-tech group to see what's going on. Lots of discussion from folks about Delphi things at BorCon. Compare that with what is being discussed in this group from BorCon (or even, frankly, in the CBX non-tech group). Frankly, there were surprisingly very few CBX-related sessions, whereas there were quite a few for Delphi. However, there were a couple of CBX session and information was released, such as the following (just to name a few): 1) CBX is targetting more platforms and more of the overall C++ marketplace (there is much more out there than just VCL for Windows). Win32/GUI development is just a piece of the overall market, and with Microsoft pushing away the native developers in favor of .Net, Borland wants to be there to pick up the slack for the Win32 users, and then to branch out in the other platforms where C++ is in high demand (Unix, mobile, etc) as well. As such... 2) ... In its first release, CBX was NOT targetting VCL users at all (that has been officially stated now). That is not to say that VCL users were ignored, far from it. They just weren't being targetted until later. 3) There is a v2.0 release of CBX in the works, targetted for release within the next few months. 4) CBX v2.0 will include the full featured compiler, the full featured Designer and Object Inspector (they did demonstrate the current Designer and it did work for a couple of different frameworks, namely wxWindows and Java Beans for demonstration purposes). 5) Many VCL who did attend the CBX sessions did (quite verbally and articulately) voice their concerns, frustrations, and wishes for VCL's future with C++. As such, JP LeBlanc has stated that there will *most likely* be a VCL bridge implemented in CBX v2.0 such that existing BCB projects *can* be opened, edited, designed, and updated natively under the new CBX environment using the current VCL (whether that will be BCB's or Delphi's current VCL, they did not say - hopefully it will be the latter). 6) If/Once implemented, the VCL bridge will allow current projects to be brought into the CBX IDE and maintained from there instead of needing BCB anymore. However, the VCL probably *will not* be updated any further after that point. Win32/VCL development as it currently stands is not being focused on anymore for long-term plans, expect for in Delphi. In C++, it would only be a stepping stone to allow existing projects to live on within the CBX environement using the existing VCL until the programmer sees fit to eventually migrate their code to one of several new future directions later on as Longhorn approaches release. Namely, either re-write the code to use the wxWindows framework for cross-platforms, or else re-write the code to Managed C++ for .NET (which CBX will eventually support directly, possibly with VCL.Net from Delphi v in order to continue with Windows-only development. Microsoft is really pushing Windows developers to .Net, and Borland is following along with that strategy. Borland does recognize that Win32 is not dead yet, and that Longhorn (the next version of Windows) is several years away, and that current applications need to be maintained. Thus the VCL bridge will probably be included in the meantime to keep things rolling until then. 7) ActiveX/COM and other existing BCB technologies will probably be introduced into CBX later on as well (and yes, they will probably get new updates for fixes to existing problems and such, at least at first). 8) TELL BORLAND EXACTLY WHAT YOU WANT/NEED IN CBX AND WHY!!!!!! Send an email to [email]cpp_open_letter (AT) borland (DOT) com[/email] and make your voices heard! I didn't write down any specific notes while I was there, this is coming from memory, so I may be a little off in a couple of details. I'm sure others will step in with corrections/elaborations. Gambit Back to top Andrew Rybenkov Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Quote: Delphi has had XP support for over a year now (for what i know) only partially - mostly for native controls like TButton. Controls, where VCL (not OS) do the drawing (e.g. TStringGrid), still not XP-ed. -- Andrew Rybenkov. Back to top Tamas Demjen Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... Quote: Don't forget that you can continue to use BCB6 to develop Win32 apps But it's not a finished product. It doesn't have a project manager, it crashes all the time. I'm not even mentioning the fact that nobody is going to be able to find a job anymore with Borland experience only. Tom Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: It's Wednesday, and... "Rob Allen" <robng (AT) the-allens (DOT) net> wrote Quote: Can you imagine how much better it would have been if those 2 snippets of information had been stated officially when BCBX launched? No argument there. That was mentioned by users during the session. Several of the Borland members already realize that Borland doesn't usually have the best approaches when it comes to releasing information at the appropriate times. But this becomes a management issue, not a developers issue. 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