BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  My Comments to the Open Letter          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: My Comments to the Open Letter I want to make some remarks In addition to what was said in the Borland Community Letter. My Company bought Borland C++ Builder 6 Enterprise because we were seduced by the "product concept" advertised by Borland. Borland sold to us a promise that C++ Builder 6 was the first release of an increasing and exciting new MULTI-PLATFORM solution. The slogan advertised said: "Code Once. Compile and Run in many" with Windows AND LINUX being addressed as a first step. I want that Borland stands to the promise in risk to be classified as an unresponsible advertiser and market player! Saulo I. Regis Password Informatica Ltda Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: My Comments to the Open Letter Saulo I. Regis wrote: Quote: advertised said: "Code Once. Compile and Run in many" with Windows AND LINUX being addressed as a first step. There once was Kylix ... -- Kristofer Back to top Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 6:38 pm    Post subject: Re: My Comments to the Open Letter "Kristofer Skaug" <ya.ierfgnf (AT) thnxf (DOT) x> escreveu na mensagem news:41658ca6 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Saulo I. Regis wrote: advertised said: "Code Once. Compile and Run in many" with Windows AND LINUX being addressed as a first step. There once was Kylix ... So...? Saulo Back to top Leo Saguisag (Borland) Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: My Comments to the Open Letter Saulo I. Regis wrote: Quote: "Kristofer Skaug" <ya.ierfgnf (AT) thnxf (DOT) x> escreveu na mensagem news:41658ca6 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Saulo I. Regis wrote: advertised said: "Code Once. Compile and Run in many" with Windows AND LINUX being addressed as a first step. There once was Kylix ... So...? The CLX library is a cross-platform component library. A CLX-based application would theoretically have the same source code, compilable on Windows using BCB and on Linux using Kylix. -- Leo Saguisag Delphi l10n engineer About the Borland newsgroups: http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ Back to top Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 10:14 pm    Post subject: Re: My Comments to the Open Letter "Leo Saguisag (Borland)" <lsaguisag_at_borland_dot_com> escreveu na mensagem news:41659d74$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: The CLX library is a cross-platform component library. A CLX-based application would theoretically have the same source code, compilable on Windows using BCB and on Linux using Kylix. Yes. C++ Builder 6 and Kylix 3 are products sold by Borland to generate real world applications. When I bought C++ Builder 6 I was buying a software development tool, not a theory! C++ Builder 6 / Kylix's CLX framework had a uncomplete set of component Classes. Borland spread the word that we could invest our resources on it, that upcoming versions of C++ Builder and Kylix would export a more complete CLX framework. So...? Saulo Back to top rolrolrol@web.de Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:08 pm    Post subject: X-platform without CLX I had the same motivation (X-platform) to go with Borland. Now I am about to move my application to QT from Trolltech. You will need 2 weeks to get used to it but then you are happy to have a new home. I do not care anymore what Borland's future strategy is. The open letter to Borland or from Borland does not matter anymore. I will never ever buy or recommend a product from a company which let me down so badly, regardless how appealing the product is. This applies to Delphi, JBuilder, C++BuilderX and all other Borland products. I have full sympathy for a company which is forced to discontinue a product provided that the painful truth is communicated in a responsible way. Borlandś managers are cowards however with no respect for loyal clients. I can not remember a comparable case where management simply hid from clients for more than a year instead of telling the truth. Borland shareholders! Fire a management which destroys your property! The user base is your money. I will continue to use my copy of C++Builder for quick and dirty software because it is a good product and there are wonderful thir party components. Longterm projects will be based on QT however. Good bye Borland. Roland Wolf Back to top Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Thu Oct 07, 2004 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: X-platform without CLX <rolrolrol (AT) web (DOT) de> escreveu na mensagem news:4165cdaf (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: I had the same motivation (X-platform) to go with Borland. Now I am about to move my application to QT from Trolltech. You will need 2 weeks to get used to it but then you are happy to have a new home. Roland, X-platform without CLX is what I want! And I believe that Borland still have a chance to provide it since inners decisions about the C++ product line will be taken till 15 Dec. If CLX was a half-baked solution, Borland can still stand to its promise of a X-platform C++ framework presenting a more robust one. The promise for me stands to supply a software development tool that I write once and compile and run under Windows AND Linux AND... whatever more! If Trolltech can do it why can't Borland? It's not a question of how it'll be done but rather if it's desidered to be done! Why Borland was desiring to do it in the past and now it isn't any more? Why Borland launched C++ Builder 6 as the first step of a X-platform solution and now is killing the product or making it a mono platform product? Mistakes can be correct! Saulo Back to top John Biddiscombe Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 10:46 am    Post subject: My views on the open letter too. I heartily agree with this sentiment (below). I will not be signing the open letter to Borland despite heavy investment in Borland's products over the years. The open Letter as far as I'm concerned is utterly irrelevent and whether or not Borland take up C++ again I shall avoid them. Not because their products are bad, but simply because it would be ridiculous to invest time and effort on their tools in the knowledge that they can simply abandon them at any time with little or no warning or regard for their user base. I applaud the effort that many of you have put into the open letter, and your reasons for doing it, but my impression is that what the open letter really says is "Dear Borland, we the undersigned have committed ourselves to your products and are totally stuffed. You have given it to us up the arse and there's nothing we can do about it. We therefore are listing lots of companies that use our products in the hope that this impresses you and you realise that you can charge far more for BCB than you previously did. We'd like you to continue developmnent of BCB and raise the price to something that makes it financially worthwhile for you to invest time and effort in it. Your Sincerely BCB users" JB <rolrolrol (AT) web (DOT) de> wrote Quote: I had the same motivation (X-platform) to go with Borland. Now I am about to move my application to QT from Trolltech. You will need 2 weeks to get used to it but then you are happy to have a new home. I do not care anymore what Borland's future strategy is. The open letter to Borland or from Borland does not matter anymore. I will never ever buy or recommend a product from a company which let me down so badly, regardless how appealing the product is. This applies to Delphi, JBuilder, C++BuilderX and all other Borland products. I have full sympathy for a company which is forced to discontinue a product provided that the painful truth is communicated in a responsible way. Borlands managers are cowards however with no respect for loyal clients. I can not remember a comparable case where management simply hid from clients for more than a year instead of telling the truth. Borland shareholders! Fire a management which destroys your property! The user base is your money. I will continue to use my copy of C++Builder for quick and dirty software because it is a good product and there are wonderful thir party components. Longterm projects will be based on QT however. Good bye Borland. Roland Wolf Back to top Paul Gustavson Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 2:27 pm    Post subject: Re: My views on the open letter too. "John Biddiscombe" <nospam (AT) nospamland (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: "Dear Borland, we the undersigned have committed ourselves to your products and are totally stuffed. You have given it to us up the arse and there's nothing we can do about it. We therefore are listing lots of companies that use our products in the hope that this impresses you and you realise that you can charge far more for BCB than you previously did. We'd like you to continue developmnent of BCB and raise the price to something that makes it financially worthwhile for you to invest time and effort in it. sorry you feel this way... My responses to this... - Signing the letter is NOT an indication of commitment to purchase by any individual or organization. Borland, if they choose to continue the product line, must realize that they should not raise the price to make up for lost time / or their investment in CBX. That simply is not a good business practice for a company that wants to reconnect with the developers. To regain market share, they must consider making it affordable and also providing it with Borland Developer Studio. - Signing the letter is an indication of our preference in BCB over other tools, but more importantly... - Signing the letter is an indication of the community's disappointment in Borland's lack of communication and commitment. As such, the community is calling on Borland's own words that they "will never abandon the developers." Essentially, the community (C++, Delphi, JBuilder users) want to know if Management is bluffing or not. Back to top Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr. Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 6:16 pm    Post subject: Re: My views on the open letter too. Paul, For whatever reasons he has, I think every single last one of them without question is not only valid, but plausible. I'm going to email you a copy of a response to the editor to SD Times to a recent article that both interviewed Dale Fuller and Boz Elloy ( Sr VP of Product Development....someone you'd think would KNOW something on the subject, but obviously not ). Essentially, my comments ( though there are some typos, because I was so peeved when I wrote it, that I didn't bother to go back and edit it ), were enough to spark a debate between their editors. To sum it up Paul, if Boz is any indication of what the upper management within Borland think of Mr. Developer, then John has an even stronger point that anything we do, may be irrelevant. That being said, that's not enough reason not to try. I wouldn't mind signing your open letter, but I won't be able to fill out the survey. Our company is privately owned, and any particulars about financials are therefore unavailable. Marcelo Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 7:59 pm    Post subject: Re: My views on the open letter too. "Paul Gustavson" <pgustavNOSPAM (AT) NOSPAMsimventions (DOT) com> wrote Quote: - Signing the letter is an indication of the community's disappointment in Borland's lack of communication and commitment. As such, the community is calling on Borland's own words that they "will never abandon the developers." Essentially, the community (C++, Delphi, JBuilder users) want to know if Management is bluffing or not. I don't have a problem with signing the letter Paul, but I have a problem with listing my "high profile" customers in order to convince Borland to do something that they should do if I was a student working on a summer project. Additionally, I'm not allowed to disclose my company's financial information, nor am I allowed to disclose information about any clients, particularly not the type that would help you here. Good luck anyway. Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: My views on the open letter too. I do not want to sign anything high profile that customers of mine might see. It would cause them to question my wisdom for continuing to use BCB given that BCB is effectively dead at this point. BTW, If no developers in Borland are working on bug fixes and new revs for a Borland tool and if the last release was years ago then that is my definiton of dead. Still, best of luck trying to change Borland's mind. Paul Gustavson wrote: Quote: - Signing the letter is an indication of the community's disappointment in Borland's lack of communication and commitment. As such, the community is calling on Borland's own words that they "will never abandon the developers." Essentially, the community (C++, Delphi, JBuilder users) want to know if Management is bluffing or not. Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Fri Oct 08, 2004 9:00 pm    Post subject: Re: My views on the open letter too. "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I do not want to sign anything high profile that customers of mine might see. It would cause them to question my wisdom for continuing to use BCB given that BCB is effectively dead at this point. Hello Randall, My customers have no clue which tools I use to generate their applications, nor should they. I agree though that I wouldn't want them to see their names publicly posted by me. In fact, as I said before, it would probably be cause for litigation in some cases. Quote: BTW, If no developers in Borland are working on bug fixes and new revs for a Borland tool and if the last release was years ago then that is my definiton of dead. Can't argue with that though I expect to see a response from someone saying that it's not dead yet and to wait for Dec 15's promised message. You used to be the guy that had the most positive attitude around here. That says a lot. Back to top rolrolrol@web.de Guest Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2004 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: X-platform without CLX Saulo I. Regis wrote: Quote: X-platform without CLX is what I want! Saulo, your dream comes true. QT _is_ X-platform without CLX. Quote: If CLX was a half-baked solution, Borland can still stand to its promise of a X-platform C++ framework presenting a more robust one. Borland delivered 3 Versions of Kylix, an IDE for developing native GUI-Applications on Linux based on the CLX library while the Kylix IDE itself used the WineLib. Not very convincing. Ok in version 1 but not in Version 3. Quote: It's not a question of how it'll be done but rather if it's desidered to be done! 100% ack. Most of us did not question Borlands capability but reliability. As far as I am concerned a solid bottom under my feet is preferred. 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