BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  New RAD C++ tool          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message r2d Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:38 am    Post subject: New RAD C++ tool http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? Anything else you would recommend to replace C++Builder? Regards, rtod Back to top Peter Agricola Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:42 am    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool Please do not cross post. It is against Borlands newsgroup rules. http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html#rules Peter Back to top Fernando Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:18 am    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool On 4 Nov 2003 18:38:59 -0700, "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? Anything else you would recommend to replace C++Builder? Maybe we should all bite the CreateWindowEx() bullet... This article seesm to have a point: http://www.relisoft.com/resource/libs.html Back to top Jennifer Ashley Kuiper Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 1:41 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool The page cannot be displayed "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? Anything else you would recommend to replace C++Builder? Regards, rtod Back to top Byoob Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 3:10 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? http://www.octopod.net/Octopod/index.htm ?? Back to top Dennis Jones Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "Fernando" <frr (AT) easyjob (DOT) net> wrote Quote: On 4 Nov 2003 18:38:59 -0700, "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? Anything else you would recommend to replace C++Builder? Maybe we should all bite the CreateWindowEx() bullet... This article seesm to have a point: http://www.relisoft.com/resource/libs.html Yes, the article does have a point, but the pirate ship analogy is not a very good one. If MFC is just a thin wrapper around the Windows API (encpsulating not much more than a window handle in many cases, as one reader pointed out), how can it possibly be compared to a pirate ship lego set? The Windows API is truly like the old, original Lego blocks -- no special-shaped pieces; just rectangular blocks and lots of imagination (boy, did I have a lot of fun with Legos!!!). My impression of MFC (although I've never used it) is that it is more like the Lego sets that came out a little later, with *some* special shaped blocks (like triangular roof pieces, windows and doors). But you still had to use a lot of imagination if you wanted to create anything other than a house or a building. OWL, on the other hand, is probably more like what the authors had in mind when they used the pirate ship metaphor. Although, to be fair, I have to admit that I've only ever maintained two OWL applications, and never built one from the ground up. I do understand how MFC can be both thin and bloated at the same time however: poor OO. However, poor OO is not (necessarily) OWL's problem. OWL's problem is a lack of intuitiveness (how do I use an eye patch to fix a hole in the bottom of the ship)? The article would seem to be quite old. It compares straight Windows API to MFC (and OWL is barely mentioned), and there is no mention of the VCL at all. I agree that I would rather write code using the Windows API before I would use MFC (and even OWL), and in the old days, I did. But there's no way I'd give up VCL now (unless something better comes along), even if it makes my programs a little fatter. Even with its faults, the VCL is a pretty darned well-designed, intuitive, and truly OO framework that, besides being RAD capable is easily extended (thanks to a fairly good OO desgin). MFC isn't even in the same league (maybe that's why VCL isn't mentioned in the article -- the authors couldn't argue for the advantages of coding in the straight API if it were). Yes, knowing how to write code using the straight windows API is a good thing, and probably even a smart thing to learn before using any framework. But having done both, I'll never go back to just using the API, and I certainly don't have time to write my own framework from the ground up (as the article would seem to suggest). The benefits of doing so are far outweighed by VCL's RAD capability, ease of use, and extendability. So, I'll stick with the VCL, thank you. - Dennis Back to top David B. Held Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "Byoob" <byoob (AT) yahoo (DOT) fr> wrote Quote: "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3fa862c3$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? http://www.octopod.net/Octopod/index.htm ?? It doesn't mention doing 2-way RAD, which suggests to me that it probably doesn't. Lots of one-way designers out there, but that's part of what made BCB revolutionary...the fact that it would parse your code and respond in the interface. Dave --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system ([url]http://www.grisoft.com)[/url]. Version: 6.0.532 / Virus Database: 326 - Release Date: 10/27/2003 Back to top David Ray Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool You have to love this quote: Limit the Use of "Private" in Your Classes It is important that your users be able to use your MFC-friendly classes in ways that you might not have originally intended. By keeping the majority of member functions, data members, and operators public, you allow for flexibility in their use. In MFC, even functions declared in the //Implementation section of a class are usually public or protected. "Dennis Jones" <djones (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: "Fernando" <frr (AT) easyjob (DOT) net> wrote in message news:91ghqv4rbvqimqs5sb22rrnhs20ep5p0e3 (AT) 4ax (DOT) com... On 4 Nov 2003 18:38:59 -0700, "r2d" <r2d (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote: http://www.capitolsoft.com/Features.htm Any other tools out there? Anything else you would recommend to replace C++Builder? Maybe we should all bite the CreateWindowEx() bullet... This article seesm to have a point: http://www.relisoft.com/resource/libs.html Yes, the article does have a point, but the pirate ship analogy is not a very good one. If MFC is just a thin wrapper around the Windows API (encpsulating not much more than a window handle in many cases, as one reader pointed out), how can it possibly be compared to a pirate ship lego set? The Windows API is truly like the old, original Lego blocks -- no special-shaped pieces; just rectangular blocks and lots of imagination (boy, did I have a lot of fun with Legos!!!). My impression of MFC (although I've never used it) is that it is more like the Lego sets that came out a little later, with *some* special shaped blocks (like triangular roof pieces, windows and doors). But you still had to use a lot of imagination if you wanted to create anything other than a house or a building. OWL, on the other hand, is probably more like what the authors had in mind when they used the pirate ship metaphor. Although, to be fair, I have to admit that I've only ever maintained two OWL applications, and never built one from the ground up. I do understand how MFC can be both thin and bloated at the same time however: poor OO. However, poor OO is not (necessarily) OWL's problem. OWL's problem is a lack of intuitiveness (how do I use an eye patch to fix a hole in the bottom of the ship)? The article would seem to be quite old. It compares straight Windows API to MFC (and OWL is barely mentioned), and there is no mention of the VCL at all. I agree that I would rather write code using the Windows API before I would use MFC (and even OWL), and in the old days, I did. But there's no way I'd give up VCL now (unless something better comes along), even if it makes my programs a little fatter. Even with its faults, the VCL is a pretty darned well-designed, intuitive, and truly OO framework that, besides being RAD capable is easily extended (thanks to a fairly good OO desgin). MFC isn't even in the same league (maybe that's why VCL isn't mentioned in the article -- the authors couldn't argue for the advantages of coding in the straight API if it were). Yes, knowing how to write code using the straight windows API is a good thing, and probably even a smart thing to learn before using any framework. But having done both, I'll never go back to just using the API, and I certainly don't have time to write my own framework from the ground up (as the article would seem to suggest). The benefits of doing so are far outweighed by VCL's RAD capability, ease of use, and extendability. So, I'll stick with the VCL, thank you. - Dennis Back to top Thomas Maeder [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool Please direct your browser at http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/ and read the newsgroup guidelines. One of them asks us not to quote entire posts we are following up to; instead, plaese trim the quotes to the parts relevant for your reply. Thanks! Back to top Byoob Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "Dennis Jones" <djones (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: The article would seem to be quite old. It is... I remember reading it 6 years ago. Back to top Dennis Jones Guest Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:59 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "David Ray" <david (AT) timecalc (DOT) com> wrote Quote: You have to love this quote: Limit the Use of "Private" in Your Classes It is important that your users be able to use your MFC-friendly classes in ways that you might not have originally intended. By keeping the majority of member functions, data members, and operators public, you allow for flexibility in their use. In MFC, even functions declared in the //Implementation section of a class are usually public or protected. Yeah, I just about fell out of my chair when I read that. - Dennis Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool Jennifer Ashley Kuiper wrote: Quote: The page cannot be displayed Ditto, and I've tried the link at least 4 times in the past 36 hours. -- Kristofer Back to top Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr. Guest Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 4:56 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool What is this link to ??? "Kristofer Skaug" <ya.ierfgnf (AT) thnxf (DOT) x> wrote Quote: Jennifer Ashley Kuiper wrote: The page cannot be displayed :( Ditto, and I've tried the link at least 4 times in the past 36 hours. -- Kristofer Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:55 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool "Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr." <mlopez (AT) voicerite (DOT) com> wrote Quote: What is this link to ??? Try it and find out The link works fine for me. Basically, it is just a list of features that RadVC supports. From the top of the page: "RadVC is a Developer Studio Add-in that allows a Visual C++ programmer to work in a Visual Basic like Rapid Application Development (RAD) environment. It helps users to visually add forms and controls in its form designer, while it generates and inserts related code in Developer Studio's editor in the background." Gambit Back to top Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr. Guest Posted: Mon Nov 10, 2003 6:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New RAD C++ tool Oh..that thing...I've seen that before...it's been around for a while...Oh my god ! Who said that's a "New" rad tool for C++ ? Give that person a sedative ! "Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" <gambit47.no.spam (AT) no (DOT) spam.yahoo.com> wrote Quote: "Marcelo R. Lopez, Jr." <mlopez (AT) voicerite (DOT) com> wrote in message news:3fafc13e$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... What is this link to ??? Try it and find out The link works fine for me. Basically, it is just a list of features that RadVC supports. From the top of the page: "RadVC is a Developer Studio Add-in that allows a Visual C++ programmer to work in a Visual Basic like Rapid Application Development (RAD) environment. It helps users to visually add forms and controls in its form designer, while it generates and inserts related code in Developer Studio's editor in the background." 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