BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Now this is interesting... Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message John Wester [Group W] Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: Now this is interesting... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/27/microsoft_decouples_longhorn/ Things that make you go hmmmmmm. -- John Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts Back to top Thomas Miller Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... I hate being right again . I said there a less then 5% chance it would ship in 2005 and now it looks like it might even slip to 2007. Win64 is looking more and more important. John Wester [Group W] wrote: Quote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/27/microsoft_decouples_longhorn/ Things that make you go hmmmmmm. -- Thomas Miller Delphi Client/Server Certified Developer BSS Accounting & Distribution Software BSS Enterprise Accounting FrameWork http://www.bss-software.com http://sourceforge.net/projects/dbexpressplus Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... "Thomas Miller" <tmiller (AT) bss-software (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I hate being right again . I said there a less then 5% chance it would ship in 2005 and now it looks like it might even slip to 2007. Win64 is looking more and more important. John Wester [Group W] wrote: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/08/27/microsoft_decouples_longhorn/ Things that make you go hmmmmmm. And I've been one of the heretics saying .NET won't be relevant until Longhorn ships, and we won't really know what the exact shape of .NET will be until it actually does ship. (and screw ASP.NET, if you are using it fine; but I don't need it or use it at the moment, but don't hand that to me as the KILLER APP for .NET.) Thus, its pointless for Borland to be championing .NET so prematurely; especially when the logical upgrade of Win32 to Win64 is staring all of us directly in the eyes. For all of Borland's monkey see monkey do emulation of Microsoft, they forgot to ape the important bits.... ooops. It would have been enough to annouce future support of .NET when/if it ever became a vital technology for the Windows platform. <alternate universe> In the meantime, we Delphi Developers could have gotten a kick-ass 64-bit compiler and WE could have been marketing our CUTTING EDGE toolsets and skillsets to our awed customer-base far outstripping our competition on other platforms. Our third-party developers could have a whole new market of eager customers waiting to snap 64-bit components. Admittedly server-side and middle-tier, but hey, did I mention the KICK ASS part? </alternate universe> -d "YOUR FIRED." - anonymous. Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... "Dennis Landi" <nada (AT) nada (DOT) com> wrote Quote: alternate universe In the meantime, we Delphi Developers could have gotten a kick-ass 64-bit compiler and WE could have been marketing our CUTTING EDGE toolsets and skillsets to our awed customer-base far outstripping our competition on other platforms. Our third-party developers could have a whole new market of eager customers waiting to snap 64-bit components. Admittedly server-side and middle-tier, but hey, did I mention the KICK ASS part? /alternate universe oh, and I did I mention recapturing some market share and thereby creating delphi jobs because we have superior technology? -d Back to top Kevin Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... SiegfriedN wrote: Quote: http://www.mozilla.org/projects/xul/ go XUL ! Yip... XUL is really starting to seem more and more interesting.... However, it seems that Macromedia has also been working on something to solve the same problem. Have you seen Flex? Very neat stuff, and it works in much the same way (from my viewpoint with almost non-existent experience in either one!!) Macromedia has what amounts to a cross-platform platform that may well rival Java (although it plays nicely with Java and .NET ). At least- it has an edge on the GUI side of things obviously. Cheers, Kevin. Back to top Mike Swaim Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Dennis Landi wrote: Quote: Thus, its pointless for Borland to be championing .NET so prematurely; Um, .net's been out for several years now, and we still don't have a nonbeta version of 64 bit Windows. While a 64 bit version of Delphi would be cool, I'd say that having a D64 right now would be more premature. There's also a question of what architecture(s) to support. Intel's still not giving up on the Itanium, and the next generation Pentium's not going to support 64 bit operations. (It'll be based on the mobile P3 not the P4.) -- Mike Swaim [email]swaim (AT) hal-pc (DOT) org[/email] at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D MD Anderson Dept. of Biostatistics & Applied Mathematics [email]mpswaim (AT) mdanderson (DOT) org[/email] or [email]mswaim (AT) odin (DOT) mdacc.tmc.edu[/email] at work ICBM: 29.763N 95.363W|Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson. Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 8:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... "Mike Swaim" <mswaim (AT) odin (DOT) mdacc.tmc.edu> wrote Quote: Dennis Landi wrote: Thus, its pointless for Borland to be championing .NET so prematurely; Um, .net's been out for several years now, and we still don't have a nonbeta version of 64 bit Windows. While a 64 bit version of Delphi would be cool, I'd say that having a D64 right now would be more premature. That woudn't have stopped Borland from developing for the Intel32-with 64-bit extensions spec. MS has a "how-to" roadmap for 32-bit to 64-bit conversion. MS has a 64-bit compiler to be used against its Itanium and Beta WinXP/64 OSes. I see no reason why Borland could not have been a participant in the early stage of that development with the proper NDAs so that they too could have supported Win64 as soon as possible. (Please hold the legal mumbo jumbo on why that wouldn't be possible). And of course you completely forgot to mention the existence of the various flavours of 64-bit Linux that is alread extant - just waiting for a RAD development tool to take them to the moon. Quote: There's also a question of what architecture(s) to support. Intel's still not giving up on the Itanium, and the next generation Pentium's not going to support 64 bit operations. (It'll be based on the mobile P3 not the P4.) That's easy. Support them all. I don't care if its hard. Just do it. Get the funding and just do it. Delphi has got to find and own its identity. Delphi is a good enough toolset to contend with anybody. Delphi's developer-base is talented enough to go toe-to-toe with anybody. Notice I said "Delphi" not "Borland". Borland's interests and Delphi's appear to be diverging. I have little interest in Borland's ALM future, if Delphi becomes a mere whisper (less than) in the market place. VISION. COURAGE. FUNDING. That's what's needed, and in that order. -d Back to top Kev French Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Quote: Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Yes, like The Register's measured, impartial journalism combined with reassuringly anonymous sources... hmmmmmn Kev Back to top John Wester [Group W] Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... In article <412fa46e (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com>, [email]kev.french (AT) news (DOT) soft[/email]works- online.com says... Quote: Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Yes, like The Register's measured, impartial journalism combined with reassuringly anonymous sources... hmmmmmn Indeed. But then, I always score close to BOFH status on their surveys :) -- John Life is complex. It has real and imaginary parts Back to top Kev French Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... "John Wester [Group W] wrote Quote: Indeed. But then, I always score close to BOFH status on their surveys A worthy goal if every there was one <g> Kev Back to top Brion L. Webster Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Kev French wrote: Quote: Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Yes, like The Register's measured, impartial journalism combined with reassuringly anonymous sources... hmmmmmn Kev Actually, it was reported earlier this morning on one of the ZDNet ezines too. "Developer sources". MS supposedly has scheduled a formal announcement for Friday. Today? Next Friday? Didn't catch which. For all we complain about Borland's lack of a roadmap, MS' roadmaps aren't worth the pixels they're printed on. They're *never* even *remotely* accurate. -Brion Back to top Brion L. Webster Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Kev French wrote: Quote: Things that make you go hmmmmmm. Yes, like The Register's measured, impartial journalism combined with reassuringly anonymous sources... hmmmmmn Kev http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1640211,00.asp (posted before the reg article AFAIK) -Brion Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 10:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... "Brion L. Webster" <brion.webster (AT) nospam (DOT) ci.fresno.ca.us> wrote in message Quote: For all we complain about Borland's lack of a roadmap, MS' roadmaps aren't worth the pixels they're printed on. They're *never* even *remotely* accurate. But it is/was also clear from the various MS developer Blogs that ".NET Sub-systems" were still under active development and constant flux. It was clear to me that we really don't know what LongHorn will exactly be until some arbitrary line is drawn in the sand; and billy boy says, "Ok, that's ready, and that's not, so we change our tune and we redefine our offering; oh and meanwhile you real developers know about VC++/64-bit right? Oh yeah! That's ready, now. Want to get to 64-bit computing? Hey we got it! This other fluff was kind of a marketing idea to grab market share from Sun; but hey, it looks like they're not going to be much of a problem after all. The mere fantasy of LongHorn/.NET, the sheer market blitz of an idea appears to have done them in.... Oh, waiter! Another Filet Migon for my friends!" -d Back to top Brion L. Webster Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:10 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Dennis Landi wrote: Quote: But it is/was also clear from the various MS developer Blogs that ".NET Sub-systems" were still under active development and constant flux. It was clear to me that we really don't know what LongHorn will exactly be until some arbitrary line is drawn in the sand; and billy boy says, "Ok, that's ready, and that's not, so we change our tune and we redefine our offering; oh and meanwhile you real developers know about VC++/64-bit right? Oh yeah! That's ready, now. Want to get to 64-bit computing? Hey we got it! This other fluff was kind of a marketing idea to grab market share from Sun; but hey, it looks like they're not going to be much of a problem after all. The mere fantasy of LongHorn/.NET, the sheer market blitz of an idea appears to have done them in.... Oh, waiter! Another Filet Migon for my friends!" But what we've been discussing in the "Borland never tells us anything" type threads are "Official Company Roadmaps". When you introduce blogs, that's a whole different kettle of fish. Borland is slowly ramping up the blogs. What we've got now are: Microsoft: Official Roadmaps, absolutely worthless for actual product specs or dates or even real feature lists. Blogs: lots and lots of good, detailed information, that more realistically reflects progress and actual features we might see Borland: Official silence. Never missed a deadline, because they never set one! <g> Blogs: slow start, good hints of features to come. Haven't had a real release yet after the blogs to measure how many really come to pass. I can see Borland moving more towards the MS model, but I'd rather Borland keep the blog accuracy level and ignore the roadmap accuracy (if not downright FUD) level. Somehow I don't think I expressed this correctly. Apologies - rather difficult Friday and I'm going home. -Brion Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2004 11:23 pm    Post subject: Re: Now this is interesting... Brion L. Webster wrote: Quote: I can see Borland moving more towards the MS model, but I'd rather Borland keep the blog accuracy level and ignore the roadmap accuracy (if not downright FUD) level. If only the BCB/CBX teams could do some worthwhile blogging... The information starvation among the Borland C++ users seems to have gone beyond despair and into complete resignation, after Borland failed to deliver the promised "Open Letter" (put off by one and two months at a time... last ETA was in May, IIRC) with plans for the future of VCL support for CBX... or wait, what was that rumour again about BCB9? -- Kristofer Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.