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peted@iinet.net.au
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 Posted: Sat Jul 03, 2004 6:36 am Post subject: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable alterna |
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I mean, ive look at some texts that refer to VC++ studio, and there
seems to be no drag and drop, form based RAD development at all.
There does seem to be in c#, but that seems to be a mush match of c
and any other number of languages, integrated into a formbased RAD,
today that BCB was already doing better 2-3 years ago.
Maybe ive got an old text
Does the current version of VC++ studio.net support form based RAD, or
any form of RAD at all.
If BCB was still current, why would you move to VC++, aside from the
avoidning the hell of trying to convert any opensource software that
exists to day that never ever caters for BCB.
I never understood, why did BCB never have an option to link VC++ DLL
and static libs directly, with a linker option, without having to go
through an insane conversion process. It would have seemed a logical
option to have. And surely any argument about c++ standards are
thrown out the window by a c++ compiler using a pascal based VCL RAD
system.
any answers appreciated
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I R T
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Clayton Arends
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 4:56 pm Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable alt |
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<peted (AT) iinet (DOT) net.au> wrote
| Quote: | Maybe ive got an old text
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Yes. In it's first release VS.Net didn't have winforms for C++. They fixed
that in the first patch and now C++ has winforms development.
Now, the only problem with it is that the code you put in an event handler
is stored in the header file rather than the code file. This doesn't seem
to adversely affect the compiler though.
| Quote: | If BCB was still current, why would you move to VC++
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Perhaps conforming to the industry standard (never my favorite argument).
I'm sure there would be other reasons but honestly I can't think of them.
If Borland would have supported BCB the way it should have been supported,
with regular patches and IDE fixes, the advantages to the VCL paradigm
overpower the .NET ones (at present time). But, this argument is moot.
| Quote: | I never understood, why did BCB never have an option to link VC++ DLL
and static libs directly
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Yes, it would have been a nice feature. But, since the rest of the product
suffered from a lack of development it's easy to understand why this sort of
feature never got implemented. Though, it would benefit the Delphi guys too
so maybe Borland just didn't want to do it or it would be a pretty tough job
to take on. Since I don't know much about LIB formats I can't speculate on
how difficult it would be.
- Clayton
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Zambhala
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| Posted: Sun Jul 04, 2004 10:12 pm Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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I R T <rambam (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote:
| Quote: | WYou do not need to buy the full VS .
You can buy just VC++ 2003 .
Amazon are selling it for 92 $ US.
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better yet mate, download VC++ 2005 (beta) for free.
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/
I've been using it about a week, in duo with with the free
SQLExpress. VSExpress is touch buggy, but I like it.
yes, the original poster's info on VS's Gui rad is
about a decade out of date. Before .Net, VS was
way inferior to BC++, rad-wise. No longer, I reckon.
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Dave D
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 4:25 am Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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All the C++ .Net books I've looked at say that there is no drag and drop
form design
in C++. If you want RAD they sned you to C# or VB. This isn't true? The
books were copyrighted 2002.
Doing the GUI in VB means you have to make your C++ a DLL and there goes all
the neat C++
class stuff. Is C# and C++ together an easy solution? Can you pass classes
back and forth etc. Is there
a recent book that covers this. Please, no COM.
You guys are really scaring me away from BCB. I've used and liked borland,
it helped me learn C++.
Visual C++ had all that document/view crap to wade through. Only downside to
BCB for me is that
all the neat components to add are written in Pascal. I'm not a
"professional" developer like you guys. I write programs for myself and my
coworkers (numerical stuff, data acquisition). Now its the choice to either
learn Pascal, or learn all the MS junk? (DECLARE_MESSAGE_MAP, stdafx, ugh).
Dave
"Zambhala" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: |
I R T <rambam (AT) bigpond (DOT) net.au> wrote:
WYou do not need to buy the full VS .
You can buy just VC++ 2003 .
Amazon are selling it for 92 $ US.
better yet mate, download VC++ 2005 (beta) for free.
http://lab.msdn.microsoft.com/vs2005/
I've been using it about a week, in duo with with the free
SQLExpress. VSExpress is touch buggy, but I like it.
yes, the original poster's info on VS's Gui rad is
about a decade out of date. Before .Net, VS was
way inferior to BC++, rad-wise. No longer, I reckon.
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I R T
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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"Dave D" <augie88 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> writes:
| Quote: | All the C++ .Net books I've looked at say that there is no drag and drop
form design
in C++. If you want RAD they sned you to C# or VB. This isn't true? The
books were copyrighted 2002.
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They are wrong.
But download an express version for yourself and see.
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I R T
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 5:05 am Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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"Dave D" <augie88 (AT) comcast (DOT) net> writes:
| Quote: | Now its the choice to either
learn Pascal, or learn all the MS junk? (DECLARE_MESSAGE_MAP, stdafx, ugh).
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It is rather differnt with the new version.
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Boian Mitov
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 9:01 am Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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I have some stuff you may like at www.mitov.com . If you are a Data
Acq. guy it's for you 
Take care,
Boian
Dave D wrote:
| Quote: | You guys are really scaring me away from BCB. I've used and liked borland,
it helped me learn C++.
Visual C++ had all that document/view crap to wade through. Only downside to
BCB for me is that
all the neat components to add are written in Pascal. I'm not a
"professional" developer like you guys. I write programs for myself and my
coworkers (numerical stuff, data acquisition). Now its the choice to either
learn Pascal, or learn all the MS junk? (DECLARE_MESSAGE_MAP, stdafx, ugh).
Dave
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Aney
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 2:58 pm Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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They were right when they were published.
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Zambhala
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Jul 11, 2004 3:30 pm Post subject: Re: ok i need to ask is moving to visual studio a viable |
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"Aney" <aney (AT) newsguy (DOT) com> wrote:
| Quote: | They are wrong.
They were right when they were published.
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I think of all the .Net suite of languages (C#, VB, C++, J#),
C++ was the one most behind the curve with RAD integration.
But they've been working on it. Like IRT said, just
download it and check it out. Compare with BCB and
make your own informed judgements. It won't cost you anything
but diskspace.
In any case, the main point is that C++.Net is moving forward
steadily. We all hope that one fine day BCB does that too.
Just be aware of the choices. As for QT, Trolltech has not
kept it's Windows free version up to date - stupidly I think.
Windows is where the mass of developers dwell, and you need
to have a living presence there to attract the mass of people.
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