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Paul Gustavson
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 Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 2:38 am Post subject: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Okay guys,
No use waiting around much longer. I think we're ready to send the open
community letter to Borland management!!!
Key points of the letter can be found at -
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/2004/10/pitching-ocl-to-borland-management.html
The letter itself is currently at -
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/2004/10/open-community-letter-to-borland.html
I will dump and filter signatures from the database by 6 pm GMT Thursday (in
about 14.5 hours from this post). If you haven't signed (or gotten someone
you know who should be counted for to have signed), please do so ASAP. The
link for the signatures is
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/2004/10/lettersign/regaddform.htm.
Thanks for spreading the word!
Also, I think there are enough comments in the signature database (for those
who signed so far) not to have to warrant individual /organizational
letters, which were being considered as a possible attachment(s). With the
comments we have, this additional effort would result in bloat - plus it's
very time consuming.
Tomorrow at 1800 GMT (6 pm GMT) the signature list will be PDFed and merged
into the Open Community Letter. Please let me know if you are willing to
mirror (reflect) the Open Community Letter. Once it is ready, we will push
it out the door! E-mail, Snail-mail, web.
Also, to be included are results from the survey.
http://www.critical.co.uk/surveys/bcbfwd/bcbfwd.htm
Thanks everyone for your efforts in being able to get this out.
r/ Paul
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David Scheffel
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Hi Paul,
how many signatures do you have already?
regards
David
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Thu Oct 21, 2004 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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"David Scheffel" <noreply (AT) spammy (DOT) com> wrote...
| Quote: | how many signatures do you have already?
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over 360
keep 'em coming.
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 3:31 am Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Here's a prelease of the BCB community letter...
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/bcb_community_letter_102104.pdf
If you wish to mirror it -- please let me know.
Thanks for all the signatures / comments. Special thanks to those who
helped in the editing!!! As a result I believe this letter is truly a
reflection of the consortium of BCB users -- no just one person's view.
Next stage is to compile Mark Jacobs survey and distribute that separately.
(not enough time to get that done).
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OBones
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:14 am Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Hi.
Wouldn't it be better to sort the names in the signature list? This way
people could find themselves more easily in it.
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 12:49 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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"OBones" <obones_grere_ (AT) _gregr_altern (DOT) org> wrote...
| Quote: | Wouldn't it be better to sort the names in the signature list? This way
people could find themselves more easily in it.
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Yes. Not a problem. I will update it to reflect an alphabetized signature
list.
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 1:27 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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"OBones" <obones_grere_ (AT) _gregr_altern (DOT) org> wrote...
| Quote: | No exec is going to read a 20 page letter.
Even I tuned out after page 2.
You need an abstract/ exec summary at the top.
The letter itself is only 5 pages long, the rest is about the signatures
and comments. But I agree that an abstract at the beginning would be good.
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Abstract makes perfect sense.
I have moved Key Considerations into the lead in paragraph, which is now
identified as an Abstract
Other tweaks (including alphabetizing signatures and individuals comments)
have been made, thereby reducing the letter to 16 pages with out loosing
content. However, if they only read the abstract, they will get it.
This update can be found for now at...
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/bcb_community_letter_102204.pdf
Once it's ready to shipped (hopefully today), the likely new home for the
letter will be http://www.bcbjournal.org
r/ Paul
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Yakov Becker
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:07 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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I think it will be wise to wait 3-5 more days. Not everybody check this
forum every day.
Jacob
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user@domain.invalid
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:15 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Paul Gustavson wrote:
| Quote: | Here's a prelease of the BCB community letter...
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/bcb_community_letter_102104.pdf
If you wish to mirror it -- please let me know.
Thanks for all the signatures / comments. Special thanks to those who
helped in the editing!!! As a result I believe this letter is truly a
reflection of the consortium of BCB users -- no just one person's view.
Next stage is to compile Mark Jacobs survey and distribute that separately.
(not enough time to get that done).
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I haven't checked back here in a while, but took a quick look at a
sampling of items. I think that the need for USERS to send an Open
Letter to Borland indicates how pathetic the situation is, and there is
no doubt in my mind that the current state of things with Borland has
killed any chances for C++ Builder. If after this amount of time they
still haven't communicated with users, or even decided what they're
doing, they are not worthy of one more iota of time.
That having been said, I took a quick look at the 'letter', and have a
couple of comments:
1) I'm sure you mean 'exacerbated' instead of 'exasperated' in the text.
2) While much of it looks professional, including some of the sillier
'signatures' makes it look like a bunch of dweebs. In my judgement, if
the individual is not using their correct name, and a 'reasonable'
affiliation, then the signature should be deleted. This doesn't mean
that a hobbyist needs to be deleted, but when someone lists their
affiliation as their country (for example), it looks silly. It also
looks silly if the 'signature' is their 'screen name'. Use some
judgement here, guys.
David Erbas-White
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:38 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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<user (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote ...
| Quote: |
I haven't checked back here in a while, but took a quick look at a
sampling of items. I think that the need for USERS to send an Open
Letter to Borland indicates how pathetic the situation is, and there is
no doubt in my mind that the current state of things with Borland has
killed any chances for C++ Builder. If after this amount of time they
still haven't communicated with users, or even decided what they're
doing, they are not worthy of one more iota of time.
|
Fortunately, from what we saw and heard at BorCon 2004, there's a
contingency within Borland, specifically the Borland Development Team
itself, which has every desire to see C++Builder supported. The face of the
issue is Borland Management, which leans on their sales force in gauging
decisions. We, believe the weight of the C++ user community can and should
carry more weight than Borland's Sales Force.
| Quote: | That having been said, I took a quick look at the 'letter', and have a
couple of comments:
1) I'm sure you mean 'exacerbated' instead of 'exasperated' in the text.
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yup - thx - fixed.
http://www.simventions.com/gustavson/bcb_community_letter_102204.pdf
| Quote: | 2) While much of it looks professional, including some of the sillier
'signatures' makes it look like a bunch of dweebs. In my judgement, if
the individual is not using their correct name, and a 'reasonable'
affiliation, then the signature should be deleted. This doesn't mean
that a hobbyist needs to be deleted, but when someone lists their
affiliation as their country (for example), it looks silly. It also
looks silly if the 'signature' is their 'screen name'. Use some
judgement here, guys.
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Many have been deleted, but it's quite likely I missed a few. Where you
looking at the alphabetized version?
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Vladimir Stefanovic
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 5:41 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Hi,
Can someone please tell me more about these paragraphs,
(I havent heard anything about that before).
| Quote: | Microsoft's renewed intent for C++ as the principal
language for exploiting CLR for .NET, which creates
a greater incentive for C++ Builder to persist and
evolve to support .NET (leveraging the Delphi for .NET
effort).
Additionally, Microsoft has recently renewed their focus
on C++ as the principal language to exploit all the
features of the CLR for .NET. With this in mind, it should
be recognized that there is an untapped world of
yet-to-be developed applications for both Win32 and .NET
that could be facilitated using C++Builder.
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Best regards,
Vladimir Stefanovic
Paul Gustavson <pgustavNOSPAM (AT) NOSPAMsimventions (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: |
"OBones" <obones_grere_ (AT) _gregr_altern (DOT) org> wrote...
Wouldn't it be better to sort the names in the signature list?
This way
people could find themselves more easily in it.
Yes. Not a problem. I will update it to reflect an alphabetized
signature
list.
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Paul Gustavson
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:02 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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"Vladimir Stefanovic" <spam (AT) not (DOT) needed> wrote...
| Quote: |
Can someone please tell me more about these paragraphs,
(I havent heard anything about that before).
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At the 2004 BorCon (the beginning of last month). Herb Sutter of Microsoft
had one of the few topics on C++ titled "Converging Roads: .NET, Longhorn,
and C++". In this session he shared about Microsoft's renewed in interest
in C++ supporting .NET. His comments provided some hope to those who use
and prefer C++ as a development language -- especially those of us intrested
in developing mission critical appications for .NET.
try http://tinyurl.com/6pptt
or decode the following linke for more info
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&frame=right&rnum=1&thl=0,885344676,885344675,885331725,885174607,885100378,885087524,884811903,884901206,884894354,884844107,884836435&seekm=41514155.6060806%40chello.nl#link4
r/ Paul
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user@domain.invalid
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:50 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Paul Gustavson wrote:
| Quote: | user (AT) domain (DOT) invalid> wrote ...
I haven't checked back here in a while, but took a quick look at a
sampling of items. I think that the need for USERS to send an Open
Letter to Borland indicates how pathetic the situation is, and there is
no doubt in my mind that the current state of things with Borland has
killed any chances for C++ Builder. If after this amount of time they
still haven't communicated with users, or even decided what they're
doing, they are not worthy of one more iota of time.
Fortunately, from what we saw and heard at BorCon 2004, there's a
contingency within Borland, specifically the Borland Development Team
itself, which has every desire to see C++Builder supported. The face of the
issue is Borland Management, which leans on their sales force in gauging
decisions. We, believe the weight of the C++ user community can and should
carry more weight than Borland's Sales Force.
|
None of what I have seen gives my any reason to change my mind. The
fact that developers within Borland think it's good to continue BCB
means NOTHING if they are not being supported by management. And it's
obvious from the lack of communication FROM management that they have no
interest in supporting C++ users.
| Quote: |
Many have been deleted, but it's quite likely I missed a few. Where you
looking at the alphabetized version?
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There are still plenty of 'fixes' to be made. In a quick perusal of the
new list, I see many 'company' listings as 'private', 'NA', 'personal
user', and one as 'korea'. I also see one as 'technical support'
(although that may be a company name, I doubt it). Again, if you're
trying for a professional presentation, try and make sure that these
items are presented professionally. For example, for those who haven't
listed a company, either list them ALL as 'private' or 'consultant' or
'unlisted', but be consistent (or leave them blank). I see one person
listed as 'Gorge', another as 'Julien', one as 'KYH', and I think that
also is unprofessional (not putting the full name). There are many more
that fall in this category.
And one last comment, it really looks unprofessional and tacky when the
'comments' at the end include things such as referring to Microsoft as
'Microsoft'. While this may be the way many folks feel, the look and feel some
of these comments give is of a bunch of whiny hobbyists, not
professional programmers. Either edit or discard such comments -- they
detract from you goal (IMHO -- but remember, I think this is a waste of
time as it is...).
David Erbas-White
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user@domain.invalid
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 6:54 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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[email]user (AT) domain (DOT) inva[/email]lid wrote:
BTW, I have no idea why my name/address is showing up as
'user (AT) domain (DOT) invalid', unless I've either been blacklisted from the
group, or Borland has 'updated' their software in some funky way. I
always (on all newsgroups) have my name and reply address in my 'from'
column, so why this is occurring to me on this group is unknown to me.
David Erbas-White
[email]derbas (AT) arachneering (DOT) com[/email]
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Vladimir Stefanovic
Guest
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2004 7:58 pm Post subject: Re: Open Community Letter - Ready To Send... |
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Thanks a lot Paul. You did a lot in past month(s) for
our community. Now we can wait 15th of Decembre.
Best regards,
Vladimir Stefanovic
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