BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Thomas Maeder [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 7:41 am    Post subject: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot "Borland C++Builder Revolt" http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1928204 Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 1:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot "Thomas Maeder [TeamB]" <maeder (AT) glue (DOT) ch> wrote Quote: "Borland C++Builder Revolt" http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1928204 Pretty tame. Back to top Ross Guest Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2004 10:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Thomas Maeder [TeamB] wrote: Quote: "Borland C++Builder Revolt" http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1928204 An unexpected side effect. Maybe some more bad PR will get Borland off there behinds and do something, more than the plea in the letter anyway. Especially if it turns up in some mainstream publications that corporates may read. Maybe this letter should have been written earlier! Back to top Kenneth de Camargo Guest Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Paul Gustavson wrote: Quote: I have already received acknowledgement from Borland Management on the letter! They are sincerely appreciative of the letter and state that they are "very intent on providing the community with a definitive answer no later than Dec. 15 of this year." Let's not forget that "screw you" qualifies as a definitive answer, though. <g> -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ * this is not a sig * Back to top Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2004 1:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot "Paul Gustavson" <pgustavNOSPAM (AT) NOSPAMsimventions (DOT) com> escreveu na mensagem news:417b21ff$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: I have already received acknowledgement from Borland Management on the letter! They are sincerely appreciative of the letter and state that they are "very intent on providing the community with a definitive answer no later than Dec. 15 of this year." Based on the tone of the response, I think the issue of BCB very much has their attention at this time!!! Hi Paul, Could you post an integral version of the communication you received from Borland? Saulo Back to top Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:13 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot "Developers using Borland's C++Builder RAD tool are in revolt. Borland apparently obsoleted this product one year ago. However, the promised migration path (to be described in a now infamous open letter) never materialized. In a last-ditch effort to convince Borland to support them, users have put together a letter justifying (and begging) for continued support." The referenced paragraph contain a very special term which summarize your effort. The term is "begging". With all my respect to you and your effort it is "begging" !... Assume that after your letter, Borland decided to continue BCB development and support and release a new version of BCB. Can you still rely on Borland ? How confortable you would be when you make your own bussiness decisions by assuming that Borland will not screw it up again? As a happy Borland customer for many years (not only BCB but almost all its development products) I have lost my trust to Borland. It is time consuming and expensive practice for us, but as a group of 20 developers serving approx. 100 customers, we will not continue with Borland any more. Regardless what new twist Borland will do. We will not beg. Quote: "Borland C++Builder Revolt" http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1928204 Back to top OBones Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 7:16 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Saulo I. Regis wrote: Quote: "Paul Gustavson" <pgustavNOSPAM (AT) NOSPAMsimventions (DOT) com> escreveu na mensagem news:417b21ff$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... I have already received acknowledgement from Borland Management on the letter! They are sincerely appreciative of the letter and state that they are "very intent on providing the community with a definitive answer no later than Dec. 15 of this year." Based on the tone of the response, I think the issue of BCB very much has their attention at this time!!! Hi Paul, Could you post an integral version of the communication you received from Borland? I don't think he can because that would be a "private" email. He would require Borland's agreement first, which would end up having to go through all the PR crap, similar to what will happen to that December 15 announcement Back to top Sabetay Toros Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 9:50 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Nihou, Okey you'll not continue with Borland. Can you tell me which development tool are you going to choose in replacement ? If anybody asks for support then, in this group we are all beggers. Sabetay <Nihou Polska> wrote Quote: "Developers using Borland's C++Builder RAD tool are in revolt. Borland apparently obsoleted this product one year ago. However, the promised migration path (to be described in a now infamous open letter) never materialized. In a last-ditch effort to convince Borland to support them, users have put together a letter justifying (and begging) for continued support." The referenced paragraph contain a very special term which summarize your effort. The term is "begging". With all my respect to you and your effort it is "begging" !... Assume that after your letter, Borland decided to continue BCB development and support and release a new version of BCB. Can you still rely on Borland ? How confortable you would be when you make your own bussiness decisions by assuming that Borland will not screw it up again? As a happy Borland customer for many years (not only BCB but almost all its development products) I have lost my trust to Borland. It is time consuming and expensive practice for us, but as a group of 20 developers serving approx. 100 customers, we will not continue with Borland any more. Regardless what new twist Borland will do. We will not beg. "Borland C++Builder Revolt" http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/22/1928204 Back to top Colin B Maharaj Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:45 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot I have never seen or heard of a "begger" who is willing to pay hard earned dollars for a new or better product, have you? Remember that beggers get something for nothing, and I think we are not proposing this. Quote: The referenced paragraph contain a very special term which summarize your effort. The term is "begging". Back to top Bob Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:46 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot I am going to have to agree with the article, it is begging. Borland's goals are not my goals anymore. From what I read in this forum, Borland has not made many other people happy. "Sabetay Toros" <bilsarbiz (AT) ttnet (DOT) net.tr> wrote Quote: Nihou, Okey you'll not continue with Borland. Can you tell me which development tool are you going to choose in replacement ? If anybody asks for support then, in this group we are all beggers. Sabetay [snip] Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Neither are they my goals. There must be many developers out here, who would prefer a virtually bug-free BCB6, over a .NET-enabled Diamondback with no VCL. This is one area marketing departments seem to mess up every time there is technical excellence making a product sell well - they wanna stuff it choc-full of features. In an updated release, I can ignore new "features", but when they impinge on the functionality of previously-working facets of the product, so that old won't work with new any more, then I am dubious as to the company's intentions. Did they not test compatibility before they shipped it? Do they want to deliberately sabotage themselves and have the management walk off with big payouts from the shell of the company it used to be? Or were these "introduced" bugs genuine mistakes that nobody at Borland could ever be bothered to fix? We'll never know. I am just gonna keep plugging away at BCB5 SP1 plus Ziegler Tools plus Advantage Database plus Addict Spellcheck plus ComponentAce AidAim compression plus my growing-in-functionality home-written libraries. At least I can debug without having to leave and re-enter the IDE, as in BCB6! The Slashdot piece and follow-up comments look very scathing of Borland, and lean towards open-sourcing the BCB IDE. I think this would be a wonderful thing to do, but I doubt Borland would allow that to happen. No, the Inprise management just wanna make a covert exit with all the profits, leaving the company to flounder in its death throes. And Microsoft want them to do this too - they may even be paying them to do this. After all, why purchase the talents of Helsjberg and then shove him into a dead-end project designing a new language? We *DO NOT NEED A NEW LANGUAGE*. Why? Because C++ is almost perfect, and it comes from a pedigree of languages that fitted with their hardware environment more snugly. BCPL by Martin Richards was so simply defined, that writing a compiler for it might take the best part of an afternoon at the most. Its only assumptions about the underlying hardware were that memory existed and could be read or written. BCPL is the forerunner to B and C (and hence C++). I was lectured by Martin, and he really implanted a clear idea of what exactly is going on in the memory of a PC when a subroutine is called, for example. Now, C# does nothing of the kind, neither does .NET or Java clarify the issue. All try to be platform-independent, and all result in profound drawbacks as a result of this constraint. -- Mark Jacobs DK Computing http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk "Bob" <Bob (AT) NoSpam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Borland's goals are not my goals anymore. From what I read in this forum, Borland has not made many other people happy. Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Mark, you do know that Diamondback has both Win32 VCL, VCL.NET and Winforms support as well as C# support? And code folding and refactoring and..... Yes, we would all like a bug free BCB6, but seeing as Borland have to support .NET in the future they had to start at some point and C#Builder was the first and DiamondBack is the third incarnation. I guess that Borland will slowly move to a complete .NET implementation as and when .NET 2 is out. I assume (hope) that BCB 9/10/whatever supports .NET as well as Win32, again to help people migrate to .NET development. Rgds Pete "Mark Jacobs" <http://www.jacobsm.com/mjmsg?Borland%20Newsgroup> wrote in message news:417d03d5 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Neither are they my goals. There must be many developers out here, who would prefer a virtually bug-free BCB6, over a .NET-enabled Diamondback with no VCL. <Snip> Back to top Saulo I. Regis Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot "Vesty" <no (AT) email (DOT) com> escreveu na mensagem news:417d13ba$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: OBones wrote: Hi Paul, Could you post an integral version of the communication you received from Borland? The letter was from the community, so I would imagine any reply would be to the community. That's my point of view too! Paul sent the Open Letter as a representative of the signers. Any communication from Borland to Paul regarding the Open Letter should be disclosed to the signers automatically! Saulo Back to top Vesty Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot OBones wrote: Quote: Hi Paul, Could you post an integral version of the communication you received from Borland? I don't think he can because that would be a "private" email. He would require Borland's agreement first, which would end up having to go through all the PR crap, similar to what will happen to that December 15 announcement The letter was from the community, so I would imagine any reply would be to the community. -- Vesty. Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2004 3:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter discussed on Slashdot Mark Jacobs wrote: Quote: Neither are they my goals. There must be many developers out here, who would prefer a virtually bug-free BCB6, over a .NET-enabled Diamondback with no VCL. If you change that to "...no VCL update" then I'd agree. I would pay just to have the worst of the IDE bugs removed. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next Page 1 of 3   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.