BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Open Letter is empty and not enough          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Relaxin Guest Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 6:50 pm    Post subject: Open Letter is empty and not enough I was hoping for more information to convince me to stay, but the brevity of the open letter and SO MANY unanswered questions has sealed the deal for me to continue my development with Microsoft products. I beleive that if Borland is serious about keeping it's BCB developers, they owe us an apology and some REAL CONCREATE WORDS to, at the very least, give a sense that they won't abandon us again! For me there has been too much pain and not enough healing to forgive and forget Borland for what they have done. P.S. This is my Dear John letter to Borland. Back to top Dennis Landi Guest Posted: Tue Dec 14, 2004 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough "Relaxin" <me (AT) yourhouse (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I was hoping for more information to convince me to stay, but the brevity of the open letter and SO MANY unanswered questions has sealed the deal for me to continue my development with Microsoft products. I beleive that if Borland is serious about keeping it's BCB developers, they owe us an apology and some REAL CONCREATE WORDS to, at the very least, give a sense that they won't abandon us again! For me there has been too much pain and not enough healing to forgive and forget Borland for what they have done. P.S. This is my Dear John letter to Borland. hmm. I don't get it. Just out of curiosity, what did the Open Letter need to say, exactly, to make you stay? Just curious. I don't have a dog in this fight. -- --------------------------------------------------- Need to see what's happening? Check out the Delphi Community Blog Aggregator http://delphi.flashblogger.com Back to top Relaxin Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:01 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Something about their future outlook for BCB. My main concern is will they continue it for 1 year and then decide that this decision isn't working for them, so they drop it again. The way I see it...If they dropped BCB in the first place because it wasn't generating enough revenue for them, if definitely won't generate enough for them now...Because some of those customers have had enough of Borlands crap and moved on to other vendors and will never look back! (I'm one of them). So their BCB customer base will be smaller than it was before all of this started. The open letter did nothing to convince those who have left and those on the fence, that Borland is a company that you can trust and depend on. "Dennis Landi" <nada (AT) nada (DOT) com> wrote Quote: hmm. I don't get it. Just out of curiosity, what did the Open Letter need to say, exactly, to make you stay? Just curious. I don't have a dog in this fight. -- --------------------------------------------------- Need to see what's happening? Check out the Delphi Community Blog Aggregator http://delphi.flashblogger.com Back to top J Alexander Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:00 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Just what Shakespeare said: The mountain was in labour, and Jove was afraid, but it brought forth a mouse. Borland took all that time, created such a suspension, and finally at the last minute ... said next to nothing. J "Relaxin" <me (AT) yourhouse (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I was hoping for more information to convince me to stay, but the brevity of the open letter and SO MANY unanswered questions has sealed the deal for me to continue my development with Microsoft products. I beleive that if Borland is serious about keeping it's BCB developers, they owe us an apology and some REAL CONCREATE WORDS to, at the very least, give a sense that they won't abandon us again! For me there has been too much pain and not enough healing to forgive and forget Borland for what they have done. P.S. This is my Dear John letter to Borland. Back to top Nicola Musatti Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:59 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Relaxin wrote: Quote: I was hoping for more information to convince me to stay, but the brevity of the open letter and SO MANY unanswered questions has sealed the deal for me to continue my development with Microsoft products. I beleive that if Borland is serious about keeping it's BCB developers, they owe us an apology and some REAL CONCREATE WORDS to, at the very least, give a sense that they won't abandon us again! I also would have prefered a more detailed roadmap, but when all's said and done, no amount of words would really influence my future decisions. If I have to choose a development environment for a new project, I'll choose among those available when I need them; so will I if I ever need to move forward from BCB6 in my current project. If a new version of BCB becomes available, I'll probably move to it when project schedules make it reasonable. Quote: For me there has been too much pain and not enough healing to forgive and forget Borland for what they have done. Well, one should probably not invest too much in terms of feelings in a business relationship. I do believe, however, that it will take a longish period of continued, concrete support before Borland wins back our trust. Cheers, -- Nicola Musatti Team Thai Kingdom Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough J Alexander, At minimum we are going to get an IDE rev that brings C++ developers up to the latest VCL (with a few years of VCL fixes) and IDE (ditto). We do not know what we will get in the way of C++ specific fixes and improvements. But surely there will be /some/ C++ fixes and improvements. So eventually we will get to use a better development environment than we have now. Yes, there are open questions in my mind: - C++ Templates. - More linker fixes. - Continued CodeGuard support? I really really hope so. - Fix(es) to whatever makes the debugging symbol stuff get hosed? - Fix(es) where an internal compiler error makes one Build All. - Any IDE bugs that are C++ specific? e.g. the class explorer problems. - .NET support (which I figure will come eventally. But Borland has to wait for MS to finalize the spec and so Borland will lag) - Probably some other stuff I'm forgetting. Still, I'd be surprised if at least some of the open questions were not addressed with fixes and improvements. J Alexander wrote: Quote: Just what Shakespeare said: The mountain was in labour, and Jove was afraid, but it brought forth a mouse. Borland took all that time, created such a suspension, and finally at the last minute ... said next to nothing. J Back to top Will DeWitt Jr. Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Relaxin wrote: Quote: The open letter did nothing to convince those who have left and those on the fence, that Borland is a company that you can trust and depend on. Borland is likely very aware that, at this point, actions speak louder than words. That probably explains the tone of the letter and the lack of effort to "spin" the situation in a better light. I viewed it as being as honest as it could be, with a commitment that seems reasonable and believable. In the following months I imagine more details on what exactly is being added/fixed will emerge, and if people are still disappointed they can jump ship then (or before if impatience gets the better of them). Will -- Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 10:56 am    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: Quote: Borland is likely very aware that, at this point, actions speak louder than words. That probably explains the tone of the letter and the lack of effort to "spin" the situation in a better light. They are indeed fully aware of the situation wrt to Builder and its users. We have just been an unfortunate casuality of corporate decision making but don't think we were cut off without a thought. Sometimes hard decisions just have to made. In this case the conveying of that decision making was pitiful but part of that was because the decision got changed several times. By bringing Builder into BDS it will hopefully be able to shelter under a common roof and is less likely to be targetted again. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Russell Hind Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote: Quote: They are indeed fully aware of the situation wrt to Builder and its users. We have just been an unfortunate casuality of corporate decision making but don't think we were cut off without a thought. Sometimes hard decisions just have to made. In this case the conveying of that decision making was pitiful but part of that was because the decision got changed several times. By bringing Builder into BDS it will hopefully be able to shelter under a common roof and is less likely to be targetted again. As you mentioned in another thread, timescales are now important. We've lived with the buggy BCB6 for a long time now and as such have started looking elsewhere. Without improvements to the compiler and significant improvements to the IDE (especially project management wise), the next BCB still may not be very attractive to us. Cheers Russell Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 1:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Russell Hind wrote: Quote: As you mentioned in another thread, timescales are now important. We've lived with the buggy BCB6 for a long time now and as such have started looking elsewhere. My feelings exactly. In our case it depends when work starts on one of our newer projects. If all this happens within the next six months there'll be no problems but twelve months is less clear for us. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Michael Gillen Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough Randall Parker wrote: Quote: We do not know what we will get in the way of C++ specific fixes and improvements. But surely there will be some C++ fixes and improvements. A benefit for me is that making modifications using plug-ins to components like NexusDB will be much easier with Delphi included. It's a real pain to add a plug-in without it. -Michael Back to top David Ray Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough The entire handling of this ordeal has been disgraceful and, IMO, reeks of incompetent corporate management. That said, the company has clearly listened to the complaints and is at least making an effort to respond to them. For that, I'm willing to give it a shot. Not to mention several years' worth of code that I really don't want to can unnecessarily. "Relaxin" <me (AT) yourhouse (DOT) com> wrote Quote: I was hoping for more information to convince me to stay, but the brevity of the open letter and SO MANY unanswered questions has sealed the deal for me to continue my development with Microsoft products. I beleive that if Borland is serious about keeping it's BCB developers, they owe us an apology and some REAL CONCREATE WORDS to, at the very least, give a sense that they won't abandon us again! For me there has been too much pain and not enough healing to forgive and forget Borland for what they have done. P.S. This is my Dear John letter to Borland. Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Dec 15, 2004 4:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Open Letter is empty and not enough David Ray wrote: Quote: The entire handling of this ordeal has been disgraceful and, IMO, reeks of incompetent corporate management. I'm not sure I'd say incompetent management but I agree that we as Builder users have been treated shamefully. I'm happy enough now to try and arrange things so that the decision we have to make can be put off as long as possible. I'm not going to hold our next project back but I think I can get a six month delay before we need to start thinking about development tool choice. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.