BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Partial C# transition Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message boxboy Guest Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:11 pm    Post subject: Partial C# transition I justed wanted to get a feeling for the attitudes in the Delphi community with regards to making a partial transition to C#. Before any one gets bent out of shape, I am not promoting people to leave Delphi. All I am trying to do is find out how many people are or feel like they might be spending some amount of time programming in C# sometime in the near future. Don't get me wrong, I love my Delphi (win32 version) and program lots of cool stuff that really cant be done very well in C#/managed code. Things like graphics demos in OpenGL (see http://www.delphi3d.net) and all things COM related. But its been a while since the first version of VS.NET came out (January 2002 I believe), and with the next iteration of VS.NET code named Whidbey and Yukon aroud the corner, I was wondering how many of you are going to make use these tools, and use them in conjunction with C#. I mean I really love Delphi for win32 (can't say this enough), but I dont believe Delphi.NET cuts it. If you want some specific about what I dont like, reply to this message asking me for details. Anyhoo, I honestly keep thinking future versions of the .NET side of Delphi are going to be perpetually behind. I think I read something about D9 isn't likely to support framework 2.0. I'd really like to hear you opinions on this, what we can do about this situation. Again I am not trying to steal people away from Delphi, I just want to get your attitudes on th matter. Oh and by the way, if it hasn't been mentioned in this forum, here is a like to an awesome one hour Anders Hejlsberg Q&A whiteboard video hosted on msdn if anyone is interested: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/episode.aspx?xml=episodes/en/20040624csharpah/manifest.xml Back to top Marcelo Carvalho Guest Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition Hi, It can be an important feature request for D9: if still not available when D9 releases, an update for .Net 2.0 should be available immediately as it launches, giving for Delphi programmers the security to be with their .Net apps updated, as necessary. The imminence of .Net 2.0 launch can be a barrier to many new .Net app development start, using the 1.1 framework. Besides, of course, the so expected Win32 support, allowing us to choose the appropriate technology for each project... If Borland hear all our claims, I think we will not need to think about C# as our main language in a near future. [][][][] Marcelo. boxboy wrote: Quote: I justed wanted to get a feeling for the attitudes in the Delphi community with regards to making a partial transition to C#. Before any one gets bent out of shape, I am not promoting people to leave Delphi. All I am trying to do is find out how many people are or feel like they might be spending some amount of time programming in C# sometime in the near future. Don't get me wrong, I love my Delphi (win32 version) and program lots of cool stuff that really cant be done very well in C#/managed code. Things like graphics demos in OpenGL (see http://www.delphi3d.net) and all things COM related. But its been a while since the first version of VS.NET came out (January 2002 I believe), and with the next iteration of VS.NET code named Whidbey and Yukon aroud the corner, I was wondering how many of you are going to make use these tools, and use them in conjunction with C#. I mean I really love Delphi for win32 (can't say this enough), but I dont believe Delphi.NET cuts it. If you want some specific about what I dont like, reply to this message asking me for details. Anyhoo, I honestly keep thinking future versions of the .NET side of Delphi are going to be perpetually behind. I think I read something about D9 isn't likely to support framework 2.0. I'd really like to hear you opinions on this, what we can do about this situation. Again I am not trying to steal people away from Delphi, I just want to get your attitudes on th matter. Oh and by the way, if it hasn't been mentioned in this forum, here is a like to an awesome one hour Anders Hejlsberg Q&A whiteboard video hosted on msdn if anyone is interested: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/episode.aspx?xml=episodes/en/20040624 csharpah/manifest.xml Back to top Msangali Guest Posted: Mon Aug 23, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition I think it makes perfect sense for anybody to learn C# just to find more jobs if he/she needs someday - it looks nice in a resume these days. And, learning a new language is good by itself - this even makes one understands Delphi better, by comparing the solutions found in a diferent language for the same problems. OTOH, I just renewed my Delphi SA last week, and, both as an employee and as a free lancer, I think Delphi will be my main development tool for the forseeable future, be it .NET or Win32. What I'm trying to say is, yes, it's always good, and funny, to keep ourselves up-to-date with other languages. And it's even better do this while using the best language/tool of all, Delphi, for the serious work. BTW, I may be wrong on this, but I tink we'll see more Delphi jobs in a near future than we see today, just because of the twin Win32/.NET capabilities. Regards, MARCO Back to top Nick Hodges [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 2:11 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy -- I'm say more interested in converting C# code to Delphi. -- Nick Hodges -- TeamB Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick Back to top Dave Nottage [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:54 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy wrote: Quote: I'd really like to hear you opinions on this, what we can do about this situation. What can we do? Believe that Delphi for .NET does "cut it". At least, that's what I'm doing.. and it hasn't stopped me (other than for CF development, which I'm only mildly interested in anyway) so far. -- Dave Nottage [TeamB] See Delphi 9 (codename: Diamondback) at BorCon (US) 2004: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32499,00.html Back to top boxboy Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:34 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition "Dave Nottage [TeamB]" wrote: Quote: boxboy wrote: I'd really like to hear you opinions on this, what we can do about this situation. What can we do? Believe that Delphi for .NET does "cut it". At least, that's what I'm doing.. and it hasn't stopped me (other than for CF development, which I'm only mildly interested in anyway) so far. Well I haven't really used Delphi.NET at too much because of the bugs I saw in it (which I did report), some of which are really obscure, but bugs never the less. Not sure, but can you span namespaces over multiple assemblies with Delphi.NET? Oh and another thing, you can't use an overloaded framework method to contruct a delegate in Delphi.NET. Just two examples here, non-exhaustive. I would hope Borland could say on top of these thing but like I had said in my original post, its most probable that the .NET compatibility of Delphi is going to lag behind especially when MS continues to add new features. For example, version 2.0 of the framework includes things like partial types, iterators, generics, anonymous methods, nullable types ect. This is going to a big list for Delphi.NET to support. I am not a compiler designer, but adding generics support Delphi.NET seems like a tall order. Not likely to happen very soon. I guess what I would REALLY like Borland to do .NET is just concentrate on the Delphi.NET compiler and language features/compatibility. I really dont care for a slick IDE or component set or data access layers. Come to think of it, I've always wanted more language stuff, at least thats what response I put on Borlands surveys whenever they as me. Problem is Borland only has one employee left that can works on the compiler (I heard they were looking for more on some jobs newsgroups). Danny, are you here (by the way I loved your component designbook)? Where did Chuck Z go? Back to top JED Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:50 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy wrote: Quote: This is going to a big list for Delphi.NET to support. I am not a compiler designer, but adding generics support Delphi.NET seems like a tall order. Not likely to happen very soon. Danny has said that he is waiting on .NET 2.0 before adding generics. I would hope has enough prior exposure to the release of 2.0 that generics will be supported in the next release after .NET 2.0. Quote: Problem is Borland only has one employee left that can works on the compiler (I heard they were looking for more on some jobs newsgroups). Danny, are you here (by the way I loved your component designbook)? Where did Chuck Z go? That is not true. -- JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/ Alpha 3.0 - Released August 23, 2004 Climbing on the wagon at: http://njed.blogspot.com/ Back to top Nick Hodges [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:56 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy wrote: Quote: Problem is Borland only has one employee left This is most decidedly /not/ true. Danny is maybe the only one you /know/ about, but the compiler team is not just Danny. -- Nick Hodges -- TeamB Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick Back to top John Kaster (Borland) Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 4:57 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy in <412ac549$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com> wrote: Quote: Problem is Borland only has one employee left that can works on the compiler (I heard they were looking for more on some jobs newsgroups). I think the other people who work on the compiler would protest this statement, or at least be compelled to check with their mothers to make sure they exist. Quote: Danny, are you here (by the way I loved your component designbook)? He's probably busy working on features you say Borland won't be able to deliver, and refining features the team at MS didn't think were feasible. ;) -- John Kaster, Borland Developer Relations, http://bdn.borland.com BorCon2004, all info in one place! http://info.borland.com/conf2004 Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com Get source: http://cc.borland.com Unofficial information overload: http://blogs.borland.com Back to top Dave Nottage [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 5:43 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy wrote: Quote: I would hope Borland could say on top of these thing but like I had said in my original post, its most probable that the .NET compatibility of Delphi is going to lag behind.. AFAICT, the two issues you describe are not compatibility issues, and by that I mean they don't make your Delphi for .NET apps incompatible with .NET. Quote: especially when MS continues to add new features. For example, version 2.0 of the framework includes things like partial types, iterators, generics, anonymous methods, nullable types ect. Borland typically supports new features after final release. It's a way of making sure they actually exist in the release. I expect they would start working on those features as soon as they can (read: when the features being supported are in beta); just not do a final release until the features themselves are released. Quote: This is going to a big list for Delphi.NET to support. I am not a compiler designer, but adding generics support Delphi.NET seems like a tall order. Not likely to happen very soon. Why not? Quote: I guess what I would REALLY like Borland to do .NET is just concentrate on the Delphi.NET compiler and language features/compatibility. Good thing they have been, then. -- Dave Nottage [TeamB] See Delphi 9 (codename: Diamondback) at BorCon (US) 2004: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,32499,00.html Back to top Carl Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 7:40 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition Great Nick! Quote: boxboy -- I'm say more interested in converting C# code to Delphi. -- Nick Hodges -- TeamB Lemanix Corporation -- http://www.lemanix.com Read my Blog -- http://www.lemanix.com/nick Back to top Kris Golko Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 10:27 am    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy, if you need (or want) to use C# you can use C#Builder. With Borland you have the choice: - Delphi for Win32 - Delphi VCL.NET - Delphi pure .Net - C# Back to top Thomas Edison Guest Posted: Tue Aug 24, 2004 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 19:11:24 -0400, boxboy wrote: Quote: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/episode.aspx?xml=episodes/en/20040624csharpah/manifest.xml Interesting. Weird that there was a guy asking basic questions about C# parameters (what a waste of Anders's time!), whereas everyone else (from what I've seen so far) was asking about possible future features and why certain features were or were not included. -- Read my blog: http://tomjb.blogspot.com/ Back to top Kyle A. Miller Guest Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition boxboy wrote: Quote: Anyhoo, I honestly keep thinking future versions of the .NET side of Delphi are going to be perpetually behind. I think I read something about D9 isn't likely to support framework 2.0. I see one of Borland's advantages as having the luxury of being the back seat driver. Microsoft maintained Win32 API just as it will maintain the ..NET libraries. Borland, as it has in the past, will be able to piggy back on Microsoft's work to either improve a process or introduce a new technology built on an existing technology, specifically .NET FCL. Back to top Ingvar Nilsen Guest Posted: Wed Aug 25, 2004 8:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Partial C# transition Kyle A. Miller wrote: Quote: I see one of Borland's advantages as having the luxury of being the back seat driver. Microsoft maintained Win32 API just as it will maintain the .NET libraries. Borland, as it has in the past, will be able to piggy back on Microsoft's work to either improve a process or introduce a new technology built on an existing technology, specifically .NET FCL. Absoultely - to the point. Disappointed about D7-8 or not, there is too much of "the train has left for Borland". Because it hasn't, has it? <g> -- Ingvar Nilsen Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.