BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Quo Vadis Borland Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Max Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 3:50 pm    Post subject: Quo Vadis Borland It is very interesting. You can read here posts from people complaining about Delphi 8/2005 since it has been released. Borland is not able to deliver a reasonable product. The last piece of software I bought was D6 in 2001. Surprisingly they have manpower for their new (useless) web site ... ? Back to top Captain Jake Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Max <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message <42ab07f3 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com> Quote: It is very interesting. You can read here posts from people complaining about Delphi 8/2005 since it has been released. And if you read elsewhere you can find people complaining about every other product ever released in the history of commercial enterprise as well. (You can also find people here complaining about D7.) Quote: Borland is not able to deliver a reasonable product. "Reasonable" is obviously debatable. I find D2005 to be quite productive, which makes it more "reasonable" to me than if it had no bugs but had fewer useable productivity features. Sure, I 'd love it if D2005 had no bugs AND still had all the productivity features. I'd also like a $500 Lamborghini (sp?), and various other things that this universe is not supplying me. So what? The last piece Quote: of software I bought was D6 in 2001. So then you admit you haven't tried D2005, except perhaps for the demo version (which I hear was not patched, IIRC). That's a pity. Some of us have found the reality of D2005 on our systems to be quite different than the doom and gloom spread repeatedly by the same few Elmer FUD's around here. Surprisingly they have manpower for Quote: their new (useless) web site ... ? The greatly improved website was almost certainly done by a company that specializes in such things. It would be quite inefficient for Borland to have done it themselves. -- ***Free Your Mind*** Posted with JSNewsreader-BETA 0.9.4.794 Back to top a Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Max, Quote: It is very interesting. You can read here posts from people complaining about Delphi 8/2005 Yes. New products based on a new .NET environment using new APIs and new compilier technology. I'm not terribly surprised that there are bugs within it. The first Win16 development environments weren't that great either. Nor was D1 nor D2. And these were based on a more stable environment (Win16 and Win32) and didn't have half the stuff in them that D2005 does -- web-development tools, cross-language components/ compilers, etc. Quote: since it has been released. Borland is not able to deliver a reasonable product. The last piece of software I bought was D6 in 2001. We have both D8 and D2005. We don't use them, we stick with D7, but I'm still glad we have copies of the later versions. It gives us a good sense of what is coming. There is little point screaming how "bad" D2005 is, because you don't have to use it. For Win32 development, it's not that superior to D7 to justify the switch -- besides the bugs. It is what D2005 does do which D7 doesn't do which is of interest. ASP.NET and .NET compiling. Now, I don't think .NET itself is right for production -- VB folks aren't liking VB.NET and I doubt most of our clients would like the larger, slower, 'buggier' desktop apps it makes, so I personally don't see what the fuss is. D2005 is a nice preview. When we go .NET we'll look at D2006, VB.NET, and others. We'll go with the one which works best *then*. Quote: Surprisingly they have manpower for their new (useless) web site ... ? I don't know about Borland, but our company has a different group of people doing our web-site. We could redo our web-site weekly and it really wouldn't affect R&D, QA, nor technical support. Web-site falls under marketting for us. It's not like if we move everyone from marketting into R&D or QA that it would help us find or fix bugs. Thanks, Brett Back to top Eric Schreiber Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Max wrote: Quote: It is very interesting. You can read here posts from people complaining about Delphi 8/2005 since it has been released. Borland is not able to deliver a reasonable product. The last piece of software I bought was D6 in 2001. Surprisingly they have manpower for their new (useless) web site ... ? As flame bait goes, this isn't even a good attempt. Back to top Wayne Niddery [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Captain Jake wrote: Quote: The greatly improved website was almost certainly done by a company that specializes in such things. It would be quite inefficient for Borland to have done it themselves. Well, they certainly had a lot of great help to get the new site developed, but it wasn't a single outside company doing it. <g> -- Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com) RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html Bandwagons are like streetcars, there'll be another along in a few minutes. Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Quote: So then you admit you haven't tried D2005, except perhaps for the demo version (which I hear was not patched, IIRC). That's a pity. Some of us have found the reality of D2005 on our systems to be quite different than the doom and gloom spread repeatedly by the same few Elmer FUD's around here. Few? Most users don't use this forum to complain, that does not mean they are pleased with the product. It's all about, Borland should deliver what has been promised through marketing. Do you consider your customers as toublesome if they have complaints about your product? I have spent $ and I'm not happy at all, you should respect that. Software is no different from any other product out there, when it comes to customer expectations. Ones burned, customers tend to use other products. Ole Back to top Wayne Niddery [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland a wrote: Quote: Nor was D1 nor D2. Just for the record, D1 enjoyed recognition as being one of the most solid "version 1" products in the industry. -- Wayne Niddery - Logic Fundamentals, Inc. (www.logicfundamentals.com) RADBooks: http://www.logicfundamentals.com/RADBooks.html Light is faster than sound, which is why some folks appear bright before they speak. Back to top Uffe Kousgaard Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland "Ole" <oleekerhovd (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Software is no different from any other product out there, when it comes to customer expectations. Once burned, customers tend to use other products. Software is a whole lot different from other products and development tools / compilers in particular. You may be able to just switch to another mp3 player, text editor etc., but you don't just switch from delphi to c++, java or whatever it is. Regards Uffe Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Quote: Software is a whole lot different from other products and development tools / compilers in particular. You may be able to just switch to another mp3 player, text editor etc., but you don't just switch from delphi to c++, java or whatever it is. Regards Uffe No, you are wrong. Software is not. That is what we as developers like to belive, when we do mistakes in code. Ole Back to top Sergey M Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Quote: The first Win16 development environments weren't that great either. Nor was D1 nor D2. And these were based on a more stable I thought D1 was great at the time. Quote: We have both D8 and D2005. We don't use them, we stick with D7, but I'm still glad we have copies of the later versions. It gives us a good sense of what is coming. Let me know when you need more "sense of what's coming" because I can arrange plenty of that at that $ticker price. I guess as long as you don't use it I should be fine, no matter what I offer. <g> -- Sergey Mishkovskiy http://www.usysware.com/dpack/ - DPack - GExperts like VS.NET add-ons http://www.usysware.com/blog/ Back to top Uffe Kousgaard Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland "Ole" <oleekerhovd (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: No, you are wrong. Software is not. That is what we as developers like to belive, when we do mistakes in code. Then, by all means, switch development tool everytime you find an error. I guess you will have to switch every day and since there is a whole lot to choose between, that should keep you occupied for a couple of years. Regards Uffe Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland "Uffe Kousgaard" <look_at_www.routeware.dk> skrev i melding news:42ab3646$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: "Ole" <oleekerhovd (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:42ab2581$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... No, you are wrong. Software is not. That is what we as developers like to belive, when we do mistakes in code. Then, by all means, switch development tool everytime you find an error. I guess you will have to switch every day and since there is a whole lot to choose between, that should keep you occupied for a couple of years. Regards Uffe Puuuuhhhh......... Ole Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 7:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland At 17:50:20, 11.06.2005, Max wrote: Quote: Borland is not able to deliver a reasonable product. <sigh> This gets so booooring. Of course Borland is able to do that, and they are still delivering products that are more than reasonable. The current Delphi may not be reasonable for you, but well, you can only talk from your situation. I've also heard about people who had big problems with the electronics of their BMW, while I personally never had any, like most people I know. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "I invented the term Object-Oriented, and I can tell you I did not have C++ in mind." -- Alan Kay Back to top Ole Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland Quote: The current Delphi may not be reasonable for you, but well, you can only talk from your situation. I've also heard about people who had big problems with the electronics of their BMW, while I personally never had any, like most people I know. And with cars there is this annoying little thing called period of guarantee. That is, errors get fixed at no cost on the owners hand. Updates or new versions are often errorfixes paied by the customer? The softwareindusty has done a great job here, for developers I mean. Does not matter how many mistakes we make, the customer must pay us to fix it. I love it. But now with Delphi 2005 I am an unsatisfied customer and the Empire strikes back at me. The update from Beta Delphi 2005 will be called Delphi 2006? Borland, you will not have my $ this time :) Ole Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2005 8:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Quo Vadis Borland At 22:09:50, 11.06.2005, Ole wrote: Quote: Updates or new versions are often errorfixes paied by the customer? Updates are free. New versions aren't, but neither are new versions of cars. <g> -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it." - Gilbert Keith Chesterton (1874-1936) Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3 ... 16, 17, 18  Next Page 1 of 18   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.