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Martijn Tonies
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:14 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
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Hello Jonathan,
| Quote: | Sounds good! I was just wondering... Would you consider making the
features of database workbench available as a set of components?
Even if there were royalties for each deployment, it would at least have
the big advantage that it would be possible to customize the user
interface. Personally, I prefer having a light and simple tool for my
every-day tasks, one that loads very fast, and has a simple interface.
That's why I still use DBExplorer, despite its many shortcomings. I've
considered (and started a few times) making my own tool, but, as you
surely know better than I... it's a lot of work!
So why not provide all the main features in a simple (to use) set of
non-visual components, that way developpers could choose to include only
the features they're interested in, and can put them together into an
interface that they feel comfortable with?
What do you think?
|
Never thought about it, I must say.
I also must say that I have no idea what functionality it should expose and
how...
How would you envision something like that?
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
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Jonathan Neve
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 6:36 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
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Hi Martijn,
Martijn Tonies wrote:
| Quote: | Never thought about it, I must say.
I also must say that I have no idea what functionality it should expose and
how...
How would you envision something like that?
|
Well, there are obviously some things that are too closely linked to the
GUI to be able to be turned into non-visual components, but I expect a
lot of the core functionality behind it could be.
For example, (I don't know you're product very well, so I hope my
examples are applicable), you could have a TDataSet descendant (or
perhaps not, that's a detail), that would hold the list of tables, and
also provide lots of properties and methods for accessing the associated
funcationality. Something like this:
TDWFields = class;
TDWCustomTables = class(TDataSet)
....
public
FieldCount:Integer;
procedure Drop;
published
property Fields:TDWFields read FFields write SetFields;
property MetaData:TStrings read FMetaData;
end;
TDWTables = class(TDWCustomTables)
....
procedure PumpFromTable(SourceTable: TDWCustomTables);
procedure PumpToTable(DestTable: TDWCustomTables);
end;
TDWFields = class(TDataSet)
....
end;
These are just ideas off the top of my head. As I said, I don't know
exactly what features you currently provide, but if you consider every
operation that you could want to perform on a "table" object, and every
bit of associated information that you currently make available for each
table, I'm sure you could come up with something good.
In fact, you could probably reuse lots of your existing windows as
property/component editors, directly in the IDE. For example, if my
TDWTables component is Active at design-time, I could double-click on
the Fields property, and get the list of fields...
This is a lot of work, but once it's done, it offers you a new market (I
expect I wouldn't be the only one to be interested!) and also, it'll
give your code more structure: if you use the components yourself in
Database Workbench, it'll avoid mixing GUI code with behind-the-scenes
code...
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what you think of this, or also, if
any other developers would be interested in such a component set. I for
one would be very interested. I could never bring myself to buy any
existing tool, because for most of my needs, DBExplorer is enough.
However, I could sure use a few extra features in some areas. Also, I'd
like to add my own custom features (e.g. integrating with our own
internal customer database, etc). Having such a component set would
avoid me having to redo all the work you have done just in order to
customize it!
In fact, if you offered the Database Workbench product itself as an
example project, it could be used just to simplify or customize the GUI,
if nothing else.
Anyway, that's all up to you of course! ;)
Regards,
Jonathan Neve.
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Lauchlan M
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Jul 19, 2005 11:15 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
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| Quote: | What do you think?
Never thought about it, I must say.
I also must say that I have no idea what functionality it should expose
and
how...
|
Also, if you provide source with the components, you may be providing much
of the source for the DB workbench . . . an issue to think about. I think
most Delphi developers require source with 3rd party components.
BTW, could you expand a little on what the Data Pump does, or point me
towards a link with more explanation? Is it for exporting/importing data, eg
to/from DDL?
Thanks!
Lauchlan M
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:49 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
Hello Lauchlan,
| Quote: | What do you think?
Never thought about it, I must say.
I also must say that I have no idea what functionality it should expose
and
how...
Also, if you provide source with the components, you may be providing much
of the source for the DB workbench . . . an issue to think about. I think
most Delphi developers require source with 3rd party components.
BTW, could you expand a little on what the Data Pump does, or point me
towards a link with more explanation? Is it for exporting/importing data,
eg
to/from DDL?
|
The DataPump is strictly for data only. However, Database Workbench also
includes a "Schema Migrator" tool which allows you to migrate existing
metadata structures to other databases and other database engines.
http://www.upscene.com/documentation/dbw/tools_datapump.htm
http://www.upscene.com/documentation/dbw/tools_schemamigrator.htm
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
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|
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:51 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
Hello Jonathan,
| Quote: | Never thought about it, I must say.
I also must say that I have no idea what functionality it should expose
and
how...
How would you envision something like that?
Well, there are obviously some things that are too closely linked to the
GUI to be able to be turned into non-visual components, but I expect a
lot of the core functionality behind it could be.
For example, (I don't know you're product very well, so I hope my
examples are applicable), you could have a TDataSet descendant (or
perhaps not, that's a detail), that would hold the list of tables, and
also provide lots of properties and methods for accessing the associated
funcationality. Something like this:
TDWFields = class;
TDWCustomTables = class(TDataSet)
...
public
FieldCount:Integer;
procedure Drop;
published
property Fields:TDWFields read FFields write SetFields;
property MetaData:TStrings read FMetaData;
end;
TDWTables = class(TDWCustomTables)
...
procedure PumpFromTable(SourceTable: TDWCustomTables);
procedure PumpToTable(DestTable: TDWCustomTables);
end;
TDWFields = class(TDataSet)
...
end;
These are just ideas off the top of my head. As I said, I don't know
exactly what features you currently provide, but if you consider every
operation that you could want to perform on a "table" object, and every
bit of associated information that you currently make available for each
table, I'm sure you could come up with something good.
In fact, you could probably reuse lots of your existing windows as
property/component editors, directly in the IDE. For example, if my
TDWTables component is Active at design-time, I could double-click on
the Fields property, and get the list of fields...
This is a lot of work, but once it's done, it offers you a new market (I
expect I wouldn't be the only one to be interested!) and also, it'll
give your code more structure: if you use the components yourself in
Database Workbench, it'll avoid mixing GUI code with behind-the-scenes
code...
Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what you think of this, or also, if
any other developers would be interested in such a component set. I for
one would be very interested. I could never bring myself to buy any
existing tool, because for most of my needs, DBExplorer is enough.
However, I could sure use a few extra features in some areas. Also, I'd
like to add my own custom features (e.g. integrating with our own
internal customer database, etc). Having such a component set would
avoid me having to redo all the work you have done just in order to
customize it!
In fact, if you offered the Database Workbench product itself as an
example project, it could be used just to simplify or customize the GUI,
if nothing else.
Anyway, that's all up to you of course! 
|
Well, this sounds like something that would take up a lot of time :-)
Most of the code is already quite structured- it had to because of the
multiple database engine support.
I have thought about exposing "stuff" to the outside world as COM
objects before, but given the number of changes in the interfaces,
this could get annoying.
I think I'll have to pass on this one for now :-)
Thanks for the explanation though.
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
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| Back to top |
|
|
Lauchlan M
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:47 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
| Quote: | BTW, could you expand a little on what the Data Pump does, or point me
towards a link with more explanation? Is it for exporting/importing
data,
eg
to/from DDL?
The DataPump is strictly for data only. However, Database Workbench also
includes a "Schema Migrator" tool which allows you to migrate existing
metadata structures to other databases and other database engines.
|
Ok, thanks.
<<
The Schema Migrator tool is a powerful tool to migrate existing database
objects to other databases, without manually running a script.
But I want to create the DDL script to run later.
Maybe a future version will have something to accomplish this . . . :)
Lauchlan M
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Jonathan Neve
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 8:36 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
Martijn Tonies wrote:
| Quote: | Well, this sounds like something that would take up a lot of time 
|
Yes, definitly! :)
| Quote: | Most of the code is already quite structured- it had to because of the
multiple database engine support.
|
True, I guess it would have to be.
| Quote: | I have thought about exposing "stuff" to the outside world as COM
objects before, but given the number of changes in the interfaces,
this could get annoying.
|
Yes. I think if you were to go that route, Delphi components would
probably be nicer than COM objects...
| Quote: | I think I'll have to pass on this one for now :-)
Thanks for the explanation though.
|
Ok, fair enough. I guess I'll have to do it myself then! :)
Regards,
Jonathan Neve.
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 9:57 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
Hi,
| Quote: | BTW, could you expand a little on what the Data Pump does, or point me
towards a link with more explanation? Is it for exporting/importing
data,
eg
to/from DDL?
The DataPump is strictly for data only. However, Database Workbench also
includes a "Schema Migrator" tool which allows you to migrate existing
metadata structures to other databases and other database engines.
Ok, thanks.
The Schema Migrator tool is a powerful tool to migrate existing database
objects to other databases, without manually running a script.
But I want to create the DDL script to run later.
|
It can create a script for you if you like ... And skip creating the objects
itself.
| Quote: | Maybe a future version will have something to accomplish this . . .
|
See above.
The point is, you don't have to create and modify the script by hand
to suit different database engines.
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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Lauchlan M
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 10:59 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
| Quote: |
The Schema Migrator tool is a powerful tool to migrate existing
database
objects to other databases, without manually running a script.
But I want to create the DDL script to run later.
It can create a script for you if you like ... And skip creating the
objects
itself.
|
Great!
| Quote: | Maybe a future version will have something to accomplish this . . . :)
See above.
The point is, you don't have to create and modify the script by hand
to suit different database engines.
|
Great again!
Thanks,
Lauchlan M
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
| Quote: | Well, this sounds like something that would take up a lot of time :-)
Yes, definitly! :)
Most of the code is already quite structured- it had to because of the
multiple database engine support.
True, I guess it would have to be.
I have thought about exposing "stuff" to the outside world as COM
objects before, but given the number of changes in the interfaces,
this could get annoying.
Yes. I think if you were to go that route, Delphi components would
probably be nicer than COM objects...
|
Probably. Then again, exposing the functionality as COM objects
would open up the functionality to other languages than Delphi.
| Quote: | I think I'll have to pass on this one for now :-)
Thanks for the explanation though.
Ok, fair enough. I guess I'll have to do it myself then!
|
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
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| Back to top |
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Craig Clemans
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:05 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
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Martijn:
Tried creating a database then the Schema Migrator. After running this
I had no tables or other objects in the database. I saw the progress
bar and the script and the results. No objects in the database. Am I
missing something here?
DBW 2.7.5 & Firebird 1.5
Thanks,
Craig Clemans
Delphi Source Code for Accounting Systems
www.ledgeraccounting.com
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Craig Clemans
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 1:19 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
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| Quote: |
Martijn:
Tried creating a database then the Schema Migrator. After running
|
Never mind. I figured it out. I have to uncheck the "Don't create
objects" checkbox.
It's always something simple isn't it. <g>
Craig
Delphi Source Code for Accounting Systems
www.ledgeraccounting.com
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 2:12 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
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| Quote: | Tried creating a database then the Schema Migrator. After running
Never mind. I figured it out. I have to uncheck the "Don't create
objects" checkbox.
It's always something simple isn't it.
|
As long as it's a "user error", I'm happy ;-)
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
|
| Back to top |
|
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Steve Troxell
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 6:47 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
Jonathan Neve wrote:
| Quote: | Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what you think of this, or also, if
any other developers would be interested in such a component set.
|
I did something similar to this for my own tools...created an object
model for everything in the database from a server object with a
database collection to objects for each stored procedure parameter. I
must say it has been a lot of work but also has been enormously useful.
All the SQL statements to access the metadata are carefully tucked away.
There is automatic handling of different versions of the database engine
(with slight differences in SQL syntax). The calling program knows
nothing about SQL, just manipulates objects which, as you can imagine,
means it is vastly faster to write and debug useful working code.
Reliability across products increases because as I refine or enhance
part of the object model, everything using it benefits.
Steve Troxell
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| Back to top |
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Martijn Tonies
Guest
|
| Posted: Wed Jul 20, 2005 7:55 pm Post subject: Re: ANN: Database Workbench 2.7.5 released |
|
|
| Quote: | Anyway, I'd be interested to hear what you think of this, or also, if
any other developers would be interested in such a component set.
I did something similar to this for my own tools...created an object
model for everything in the database from a server object with a
database collection to objects for each stored procedure parameter. I
must say it has been a lot of work but also has been enormously useful.
All the SQL statements to access the metadata are carefully tucked away.
There is automatic handling of different versions of the database engine
(with slight differences in SQL syntax). The calling program knows
nothing about SQL, just manipulates objects which, as you can imagine,
means it is vastly faster to write and debug useful working code.
Reliability across products increases because as I refine or enhance
part of the object model, everything using it benefits.
|
Sounds familiar :-)
--
With regards,
Martijn Tonies
Database Workbench - tool for InterBase, Firebird, MySQL, Oracle & MS SQL
Server
Upscene Productions
http://www.upscene.com
Database development questions? Check the forum!
http://www.databasedevelopmentforum.com
|
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