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Des O'Toole
Guest
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 Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:59 am Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Hi Rodrigo
We're both in the same boat, and share the same outlook.
I've also been forced to evaluate all the migration options and the only
other thing I'm hoping for is that more 3rd party vendors produce pure .Net
versions of their components (as Developer Express have), rather than
VCL.NET versions. At least this way, a migration to C++ VS.NET may not be as
painful.
In the meantime we're restructuring a lot of our code so that we don't use
VCL components directly. Instead we use a core subset of highly customised
derivatives. Hopefully this will make it easier if we then have to switch to
..NET, or any other environment. For instance, rather than worrying about a
thousand TForms, we will only have to concentrate on adapting WinForms to
provide our core, standardised behaviour. As well as hopefully easing
migration this is also paying dividends in standardising the look and feel
of our user interface and making the code much cleaner.
But still, fingers crossed for a new BCB.
Des
"Rodrigo Gómez" <rgomez (AT) tsradio (DOT) com.mx> wrote
| Quote: | To everyone:
Even if Borland say anything positive about future developments regarding
BCB (officially) would you trust them to commit to it in the future after
the way we have been treated in the past?
There are not much options really. For me, I'm willing to forget and
forgive Borland as long as they bring something good to the BCB world
again. BCB is such a great tool, and I have sooooo much time, money and
experience invested here, that changing this to another framework/language
will be too expensive, and improductive, if possible at all. I know it
might not be a wise decision to continue with Borland after the lack of a
clear path, but me business depends on the products I already have, and I
have to continue supporting and creating new features for them for the
next 5-10 years maybe (I still have one of my 3 big apps in BCB4!!!), so a
fixed IDE and up to date VCL will be a great help, even if it's the last
one.
I'm trying to find other options for new projects, or new versions of my
products, but they are practically limited to Delphi, as I depend on
several 3rd party tools that are not available for other platarforms. But
the STL is not available to Delphi, and, of course, the 4 years of BCB
(yes, I use __finally, __property and so on) code I have must be
translated... Bringing BCB to the Delphi world seems to me that will give
BCB a clear future (and maybe a much broader audience than now), so I
really have high hopes on not having to search for alternatives.
--
Rodrigo Gómez
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 10:53 am Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Mark Jacobs wrote:
PMFJI.
| Quote: | Could you please explain to me why you need .Net right now? It won't
run on Win9x platforms,
|
It won't run on CP/M either. Big deal.
| Quote: | and its memory and processor constraints mean
that the only people who can run it tolerably are power PC users.
|
It runs okay on the HP Kayaks we have here and they are horrible P3
based wrecks(*). Or is it P2?. Whatever. If a .NET application can run
on one of those I don't think we have much to worry about.
Computers change. Operating systems change. New technology should be
investigated fully before discarding or embracing it. Just saying 'pah'
and refusing to look at it helps no one.
(*)The name is a good one. It allows you to comment about "being up
excrement creek in a Kayak without a paddle" 
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:34 am Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | It runs okay on the HP Kayaks we have here and they are horrible P3
based wrecks(*).
With faulty clocks ?
|
Lol, probably. Those machines are hideous. I think we picked them up on
the cheap from HP a couple of years ago.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Mark Jacobs
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:40 am Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Could you please explain to me why you need .Net right now? It won't run on
Win9x platforms, and its memory and processor constraints mean that the only
people who can run it tolerably are power PC users.
--
Mark Jacobs
DK Computing
http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk
"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | Hi Rodrigo
We're both in the same boat, and share the same outlook.
I've also been forced to evaluate all the migration options and the only
other thing I'm hoping for is that more 3rd party vendors produce pure .Net
versions of their components (as Developer Express have), rather than
VCL.NET versions. At least this way, a migration to C++ VS.NET may not be as
painful.
In the meantime we're restructuring a lot of our code so that we don't use
VCL components directly. Instead we use a core subset of highly customised
derivatives. Hopefully this will make it easier if we then have to switch to
.NET, or any other environment. For instance, rather than worrying about a
thousand TForms, we will only have to concentrate on adapting WinForms to
provide our core, standardised behaviour. As well as hopefully easing
migration this is also paying dividends in standardising the look and feel
of our user interface and making the code much cleaner.
But still, fingers crossed for a new BCB.
Des
"Rodrigo Gómez" <rgomez (AT) tsradio (DOT) com.mx> wrote in message
news:418ea5d9$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
To everyone:
Even if Borland say anything positive about future developments regarding
BCB (officially) would you trust them to commit to it in the future after
the way we have been treated in the past?
There are not much options really. For me, I'm willing to forget and
forgive Borland as long as they bring something good to the BCB world
again. BCB is such a great tool, and I have sooooo much time, money and
experience invested here, that changing this to another framework/language
will be too expensive, and improductive, if possible at all. I know it
might not be a wise decision to continue with Borland after the lack of a
clear path, but me business depends on the products I already have, and I
have to continue supporting and creating new features for them for the
next 5-10 years maybe (I still have one of my 3 big apps in BCB4!!!), so a
fixed IDE and up to date VCL will be a great help, even if it's the last
one.
I'm trying to find other options for new projects, or new versions of my
products, but they are practically limited to Delphi, as I depend on
several 3rd party tools that are not available for other platarforms. But
the STL is not available to Delphi, and, of course, the 4 years of BCB
(yes, I use __finally, __property and so on) code I have must be
translated... Bringing BCB to the Delphi world seems to me that will give
BCB a clear future (and maybe a much broader audience than now), so I
really have high hopes on not having to search for alternatives.
--
Rodrigo Gómez
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 11:58 am Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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"Mark Jacobs" <http://www.jacobsm.com/mjmsg?Borland%20Newsgroup> wrote in
message news:4190ac88$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
| Quote: | Could you please explain to me why you need .Net right now? It won't run
on
Win9x platforms, and its memory and processor constraints mean that the
only
people who can run it tolerably are power PC users.
|
Actually I don't need .NET at all at the moment. I will continue to use BCB
for the forseeable future.But I have investigated what our exit strategy
will be should we ever need to move on from BCB, currently .NET is the
strongest contender. Whilst investigating this I've come to the conclusion
that making code changes to ease any future transition will also benefit our
current codebase under BCB.
Des
| Quote: |
"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote in message
news:418f5195$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
| Hi Rodrigo
|
| We're both in the same boat, and share the same outlook.
|
| I've also been forced to evaluate all the migration options and the only
| other thing I'm hoping for is that more 3rd party vendors produce pure
.Net
| versions of their components (as Developer Express have), rather than
| VCL.NET versions. At least this way, a migration to C++ VS.NET may not
be as
| painful.
|
| In the meantime we're restructuring a lot of our code so that we don't
use
| VCL components directly. Instead we use a core subset of highly
customised
| derivatives. Hopefully this will make it easier if we then have to
switch to
| .NET, or any other environment. For instance, rather than worrying about
a
| thousand TForms, we will only have to concentrate on adapting WinForms
to
| provide our core, standardised behaviour. As well as hopefully easing
| migration this is also paying dividends in standardising the look and
feel
| of our user interface and making the code much cleaner.
|
| But still, fingers crossed for a new BCB.
|
| Des
|
| "Rodrigo Gómez" <rgomez (AT) tsradio (DOT) com.mx> wrote in message
| news:418ea5d9$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
| >> To everyone:
| >> Even if Borland say anything positive about future developments
regarding
| >> BCB (officially) would you trust them to commit to it in the future
after
| >> the way we have been treated in the past?
|
| > There are not much options really. For me, I'm willing to forget and
| > forgive Borland as long as they bring something good to the BCB world
| > again. BCB is such a great tool, and I have sooooo much time, money
and
| > experience invested here, that changing this to another
framework/language
| > will be too expensive, and improductive, if possible at all. I know it
| > might not be a wise decision to continue with Borland after the lack
of a
| > clear path, but me business depends on the products I already have,
and I
| > have to continue supporting and creating new features for them for the
| > next 5-10 years maybe (I still have one of my 3 big apps in BCB4!!!),
so a
| > fixed IDE and up to date VCL will be a great help, even if it's the
last
| > one.
|
| > I'm trying to find other options for new projects, or new versions of
my
| > products, but they are practically limited to Delphi, as I depend on
| > several 3rd party tools that are not available for other platarforms.
But
| > the STL is not available to Delphi, and, of course, the 4 years of BCB
| > (yes, I use __finally, __property and so on) code I have must be
| > translated... Bringing BCB to the Delphi world seems to me that will
give
| > BCB a clear future (and maybe a much broader audience than now), so I
| > really have high hopes on not having to search for alternatives.
|
| > --
| > Rodrigo Gómez
|
|
|
|
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| Back to top |
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Des O'Toole
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:12 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
"Andrue Cope [TeamB]" <no.spam (AT) not (DOT) a.valid.address> wrote
| Quote: |
It runs okay on the HP Kayaks we have here and they are horrible P3
based wrecks(*).
|
With faulty clocks ? :-)
Des
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:41 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Hi Andrue
I was just commenting that the timestamp on your posts seem to be out by an
hour (perhaps an incorrect timezone ?).
Des
"Andrue Cope [TeamB]" <no.spam (AT) not (DOT) a.valid.address> wrote
| Quote: | Des O'Toole wrote:
It runs okay on the HP Kayaks we have here and they are horrible P3
based wrecks(*).
With faulty clocks ? :-)
Lol, probably. Those machines are hideous. I think we picked them up on
the cheap from HP a couple of years ago.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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| Back to top |
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:46 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | Hi Andrue
I was just commenting that the timestamp on your posts seem to be out
by an hour (perhaps an incorrect timezone ?)
|
Hmmm. Interesting. We did just come off DST. I had this problem with a
laptop once. Let me check.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:47 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
| Quote: | I was just commenting that the timestamp on your posts seem to be
out by an hour (perhaps an incorrect timezone ?)
Hmmm. Interesting. We did just come off DST. I had this problem with a
laptop once. Let me check.
|
Bah, yes. It's the same problem I had once before. Only thing is it was
caused by my laptop not being told to account for DST. This machine is
correctly configured to do that. I wonder if it's the newsreader?
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 1:50 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | If you look at Andue's headers you will see there is a 7 hour time
differential, he probably has a US timezone setting for his clock.
This is why it will get confused when changing between GMT/BST.
|
That's what I first thought but that isn't the case. My machine is
configured as being "GMT (Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London)" with the
daylight savings box checked.
Last time this happened it was because my Toshiba laptop didn't have
the DST check box checked.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
I presume you are posting from the States, if you are posting from the UK
then your timezone is way off.
Des
"Andrue Cope [TeamB]" <no.spam (AT) not (DOT) a.valid.address> wrote
| Quote: | Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
I was just commenting that the timestamp on your posts seem to be
out by an hour (perhaps an incorrect timezone ?)
Hmmm. Interesting. We did just come off DST. I had this problem with a
laptop once. Let me check.
Bah, yes. It's the same problem I had once before. Only thing is it was
caused by my laptop not being told to account for DST. This machine is
correctly configured to do that. I wonder if it's the newsreader?
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
|
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| Back to top |
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Pete Fraser
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:05 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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Andrue lives & works in the UK
His times are only 1 hour out for me (in the UK) and we recently put our
clocks
back as Summer(?) time ended so that's probably why...
Rgds Pete
"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | I presume you are posting from the States, if you are posting from the UK
then your timezone is way off.
|
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
I'm from the UK too.
If you look at Andue's headers you will see there is a 7 hour time
differential, he probably has a US timezone setting for his clock. This is
why it will get confused when changing between GMT/BST.
Des
"Pete Fraser" <pete._no_spam_fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.net> wrote
| Quote: | Andrue lives & works in the UK
His times are only 1 hour out for me (in the UK) and we recently put our
clocks
back as Summer(?) time ended so that's probably why...
Rgds Pete
"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote in message
news:4190cde1$2 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com...
I presume you are posting from the States, if you are posting from the UK
then your timezone is way off.
|
|
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| Back to top |
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:17 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
|
|
Micha Nelissen wrote:
| Quote: | Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:35:44 +0100
So maybe your news client is not "listening" to your OS ?
|
Looks like it. I'll try and get on the support groups and see.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Micha Nelissen
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 09, 2004 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: BCB ALTERNATIVES AND MIGRATION PATH |
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|
Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote:
| Quote: | That's what I first thought but that isn't the case. My machine is
configured as being "GMT (Dublin, Edinburgh, Lisbon, London)" with the
daylight savings box checked.
|
This is what your headers say:
Date: 9 Nov 2004 06:50:05 -0700
This is an earlier message from myself:
Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2004 13:35:44 +0100
So maybe your news client is not "listening" to your OS ?
Micha
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