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Adam Versteegen
Guest
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 Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2003 11:44 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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John Kaster wrote:
| Quote: | Open Letter to the Borland® C++ Developer Community
J.P. LeBlanc, newly appointed vice president and general manager of the
Borland® C++ and Mobile solutions group, writes an open letter to
members of the Borland C++ developer community on the next generation
Borland C++ product line.
http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,30279,00.html
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Woohoo!! The next version of Buildes is mentioned!!
Man, will this make a few people around here happy  (me being one of
them...).
Vesty.
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Peter Agricola
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 5:47 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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<quote>
3. Provide a true C++ RAD visual development environment
In keeping with our commitment to enable developers to build better software
faster, this product will be designed with a new visual development
environment and support for multiple platform frameworks for all C++
developers. As currently planned, Borland will deliver a new, pure C++
framework, not requiring the use of any compiler extensions, and allowing
developers to easily build and deliver cross-platform applications.
</quote>
English is not my first language, but do I read here we get a replacement
for CLX (formerly known as VCL)? We haven't to use Pascal anymore?
Peter
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Russell Hind
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 6:26 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Peter Agricola wrote:
| Quote: |
English is not my first language, but do I read here we get a replacement
for CLX (formerly known as VCL)? We haven't to use Pascal anymore?
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That is how I read it (I'm English but that doesn't mean anything when
it comes to understanding what people have written )
This, for me, is completely unexpected, but the best news in the letter.
We've been asking for this since C++Builder 1, but it was the one
thing I never thought would happen. This is very good news.
Thanks
Russell
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Peter Agricola
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 7:33 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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"Russell Hind" wrote:
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This, for me, is completely unexpected, but the best news in the letter.
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I'm not sure about that. Did you read point 4?
OK, 'regularly' can mean every two years, but that's not how I read it. But
English is not my first language  .
<quote>
4. Improved maintenance
As an essential and integral part of the product strategy, this new product
will be regularly maintained. As currently planned, built into the product
will be support for submitting deficiency reports and tracking any patches
and updates through an enhanced Borland Quality Central interface. More
importantly, Borland is committed to a regular maintenance schedule and a
commitment to conformance with evolving ANSI standards with scheduled
product updates.
</quote>
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Russell Hind
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Peter Agricola wrote:
| Quote: |
quote
4. Improved maintenance
As an essential and integral part of the product strategy, this new product
will be regularly maintained. As currently planned, built into the product
will be support for submitting deficiency reports and tracking any patches
and updates through an enhanced Borland Quality Central interface. More
importantly, Borland is committed to a regular maintenance schedule and a
commitment to conformance with evolving ANSI standards with scheduled
product updates.
/quote
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I have taken it to mean it will be a big improvement on what we have so
far. Lets hope Borland deliver on it.
Thanks
Russell
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Andrue Cope
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 8:32 am Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Russell Hind,
| Quote: | That is how I read it (I'm English but that doesn't mean anything when
it comes to understanding what people have written )
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It's because not everyone writes like wot I does
--
Andrue Cope
[Bicester, UK]
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Michael Brazee
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 12:38 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Already requestd my invitation to particpate.
How long before the flame wars start?;)
Great news,
Mike
"John Kaster" <johnk (AT) borland (DOT) com> wrote
| Quote: | Open Letter to the Borland® C++ Developer Community
J.P. LeBlanc, newly appointed vice president and general manager of the
Borland® C++ and Mobile solutions group, writes an open letter to
members of the Borland C++ developer community on the next generation
Borland C++ product line.
http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,30279,00.html
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Andrue Cope
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:17 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Chris Harvey,
| Quote: | I did not see any mention of a timetable for the release of the new product.
Did I miss it or does anyone else know?
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When it's ready (TM)
--
Andrue Cope
[Bicester, UK]
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Chris Harvey
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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You're right. I forgot. Must keep repeating the Borland mantra "When its
ready..When its ready..When its ready..". Of course if Microsoft operated
like that we would all still be using DOS 6.2.
"Andrue Cope" <not.a.valid (AT) email (DOT) address.sorry> wrote
| Quote: | Chris Harvey,
I did not see any mention of a timetable for the release of the new
product.
Did I miss it or does anyone else know?
When it's ready (TM)
--
Andrue Cope
[Bicester, UK]
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Saulo I. Regis
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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<quote>
Legal Disclaimer:
The products are still being tested and developed by Borland, and may be
changed substantially before commercial release.
Borland reserves the right at any time not to release or to discontinue
release of any product (including a commercial release)
</quote>
Everything is ok... but this last sentence is somewhat ... disturbing!
Saulo
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Kristofer Skaug
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 1:58 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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"Peter Agricola" wrote
| Quote: |
English is not my first language, but do I read here we get a
replacement
for CLX (formerly known as VCL)? We haven't to use Pascal anymore?
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That would be a very long extrapolation of what is actually said.
BTW, CLX isn't "formerly known as VCL", the VCL is still *the* native
visual
development framework for Windows in Borland tools, AFAIK.
CLX was a mistake, it should've been called "VCL for Linux".
Anyway, if BCB were to disown the Delphi-based VCL, it would destroy
the interoperability of Delphi/BCB code and binaries. That'd be quite a
bold
(and for my team, very undesirable!) move.
Kristofer
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Russell Hind
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:09 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Kristofer Skaug wrote:
| Quote: | development framework for Windows in Borland tools, AFAIK.
CLX was a mistake, it should've been called "VCL for Linux".
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That is wrong. Clx is cross platform. AFAIK, it is written around Qt
which is available for many platforms. Therefore, not as flexible as
VCL but it means it will run on win32, linux, or any other platform that
has QT available if Borland made the compiler available for that platform.
| Quote: | Anyway, if BCB were to disown the Delphi-based VCL, it would destroy
the interoperability of Delphi/BCB code and binaries. That'd be quite a
bold
(and for my team, very undesirable!) move.
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Whose to say you won't still be able to use the VCL in future versions
of BCB? They are just saying that a C++ framework will be available
that won't require the use of __published, __closure, __property etc.
There is nothing to say they are going to reduce the functionality, just
add to it.
IMHO, they won't drop VCL support from BCB becase
a) Too many existing programs would need to be re-designed
b) Too many components out there would suddenly become useless in BCB.
Cheers
Russell
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Kristofer Skaug
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:11 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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"Leo Siefert" wrote
| Quote: | I'm particularly pleased with:
quote
Borland will deliver a new, pure C++ framework, not requiring the
use of any compiler extensions, and allowing developers to easily
build and deliver cross-platform applications.
/quote
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I fail to grasp the excitement about this statement (or anything else
within the letter BTW).
- Are they promising you can build applications for multiple platforms
with one and the same C++ Builder?
- Are they saying they're kicking the VCL out of BCB? I hope not!
It would be a major mistake to throw out a mature framework like VCL,
without knowing damn well you have something better to replace it with.
Look at the mess with CLX! This Qt-based framework is so wobbly that
hardly anyone wants it for serious commercial use.
- Are they, in fact, saying anything of substance in this article at all?
Except, like, 'hey guys, we're still here, hang on!'. I see hardly a
single substantial promise. Will there be a new, Sidewinder-style IDE (as
in C#B)? Will there be new RAD features? Will there be .NET
compatability? Will there be improved WebServices support? Will there be
Linux/CLX framework compatability (still)? Will there be Delphi
interoperability (still)? Will there be compiler speed improvements? Can
you compile code for UNIX or Macintosh or Linux? No? So what's all the
noise about?
Standards compliance, bah.
Kristofer
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Kristofer Skaug
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 2:19 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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"Russell Hind" wrote
| Quote: |
That is wrong. Clx is cross platform. <...> will run on win32, linux,
or
any other platform that has QT available if Borland made the compiler
available for that platform.
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Yes it will, but the majority of people I know that do Delphi/BCB/Kylix
cross-platform development,
still use VCL when compiling for Windows and CLX when compiling for Linux
(because they have no other choice there).
It's just too embarrassing to show up with CLX under Windows.
It's so buggy I'm forced to hold my breath with every click of the mouse.
| Quote: | Whose to say you won't still be able to use the VCL in future versions
of BCB? They are just saying that a C++ framework will be available
that won't require the use of __published, __closure, __property etc.
There is nothing to say they are going to reduce the functionality,
just
add to it.
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I hope so. But I heard rumors elsewhere (no idea how true they are) that
the Delphi/BCB VMT compatability would soon be a thing of the past.
At the moment some fairly core components in our software systems are
leaning on the possibility of importing a C++ class as a TObject in a
Delphi application
(and vice versa) through DLL interfaces.
Kristofer
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David Erbas-White
Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2003 3:00 pm Post subject: Re: Open Letter to the Borland C++ Developer Community |
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Russell Hind wrote:
| Quote: | Peter Agricola wrote:
quote
4. Improved maintenance
As an essential and integral part of the product strategy, this new
product
will be regularly maintained. As currently planned, built into the
product
will be support for submitting deficiency reports and tracking any
patches
and updates through an enhanced Borland Quality Central interface. More
importantly, Borland is committed to a regular maintenance schedule and a
commitment to conformance with evolving ANSI standards with scheduled
product updates.
/quote
I have taken it to mean it will be a big improvement on what we have so
far. Lets hope Borland deliver on it.
Thanks
Russell
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I read this as well, and to me THIS is the SINGLE biggest improvement
that I've been asking Borland for. I only have one comment on it, and
that is: of all the items mentioned, this is the only one that could
have been implemented 'immediately' (i.e., it does not require a new
product release to provide better product support). It simply requires
the commitment from the company to do it, and assign the resources.
This could have been implemented at the time these decisions were made,
and would prove to be a very powerful indicator to the community of
Borland's new 'commitment'. Instead, what we have are PROMISES of
better support, without any true indicators of what that means. There
have been sufficient comments about existing bugs listed in QC, etc.,
that remain unaddressed, and that are causing some consternation for
users, that I have to remain skeptical at this point.
David Erbas-White
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