BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Refactoring in BCB2006 Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message David Perkins Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:31 am    Post subject: Refactoring in BCB2006 Look at the feature matrix: http://www.borland.com/resources/en/pdf/products/delphi/bds2006_feature_matrix.pdf Page 5: Rename refactoring. Is this really all we're getting? Back to top Alan Bellingham Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:40 am    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 David Perkins <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Look at the feature matrix: http://www.borland.com/resources/en/pdf/products/delphi/bds2006_feature_matrix.pdf Page 5: Rename refactoring. Is this really all we're getting? I think you managed to skip a number of pages. Alan Bellingham -- ACCU Conference 2006 - 19-22 April, Randolph Hotel, Oxford, UK Back to top David Perkins Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 Quote: Look at the feature matrix: http://www.borland.com/resources/en/pdf/products/delphi/bds2006_feature_matrix.pdf Page 5: Rename refactoring. Is this really all we're getting? I think you managed to skip a number of pages. Which other refactoring items are in BCB2006? Back to top Alan Bellingham Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 David Perkins <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Which other refactoring items are in BCB2006? Oh, I thought you were complaining that that was all that was new, not all that was new in refactoring. (Having an important part of your post only in your subject line means that it will get missed by a lot of people a lot of the time. I would suggest you avoid it.) But any refactoring support at all is better than none. Assuming it works. C++ is pretty difficult compared to Java, for example, if only because with Java you can keep up-to-date parsed versions of the whole codebase. For C++ on the other hand, well, the separate compilation model makes it more difficult to know that you've actually found all the references. Not impossible, but more difficult. Alan Bellingham -- ACCU Conference 2006 - 19-22 April, Randolph Hotel, Oxford, UK Back to top David Perkins Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 Quote: Oh, I thought you were complaining that that was all that was new, not all that was new in refactoring. ! Quote: But any refactoring support at all is better than none. Assuming it works. C++ is pretty difficult compared to Java, for example, if only because with Java you can keep up-to-date parsed versions of the whole codebase. For C++ on the other hand, well, the separate compilation model makes it more difficult to know that you've actually found all the references. Not impossible, but more difficult. That may be so. After a Borlander (I forget whowhen) suggested BCB would also have refactoring, I was a bit miffed that we only get one feature. Still, mustn't grumble, hopefully they'll add more BCB refactoring in later. Back to top Alan Bellingham Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 David Perkins <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: feature. Still, mustn't grumble, hopefully they'll add more BCB refactoring in later. Indeed, I would hope so. In this case, I think it may have been a case of "You want a bit now, or nothing till it's all finished?". To which the answer will be "The bit now, please". They have managed to produce the one part of Eclipse refactoring that I actually use, so I'd mostly be happy. Alan Bellingham -- ACCU Conference 2006 - 19-22 April, Randolph Hotel, Oxford, UK Back to top Dejan Stanic Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 8:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 David Perkins wrote: Quote: That may be so. After a Borlander (I forget whowhen) suggested BCB would also have refactoring, I was a bit miffed that we only get one feature. Still, mustn't grumble, hopefully they'll add more BCB refactoring in later. Well, it looks that refactoring for Dexter's Delphi personallity is quite enhanced compared to D2005. Reasonable guess would be that the same thing will happen with following releases with C++ personality. LP, Dejan Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 At 13:04:13, 15.11.2005, David Perkins wrote: Quote: Look at the feature matrix: http://www.borland.com/resources/en/pdf/products/delphi/bds2006_feat ure_matrix.pdf Page 5: Rename refactoring. Is this really all we're getting? I think you managed to skip a number of pages. Which other refactoring items are in BCB2006? I guess refactoring is a little harder in C++ than in Delphi. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle." -- Albert Einstein (1879-1955) Back to top Robby Tanner Guest Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2005 11:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <velthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: At 13:04:13, 15.11.2005, David Perkins wrote: I guess refactoring is a little harder in C++ than in Delphi. Would that not sort of follow considering that the VCL is easier to accomodate in OOP than in C++? Do they not use the same features/limitations? Rob Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 12:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 At 00:18:02, 16.11.2005, Robby Tanner wrote: Quote: "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <velthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0e9s95c24f4zf01l-velthuis (AT) www (DOT) teamb.com... At 13:04:13, 15.11.2005, David Perkins wrote: I guess refactoring is a little harder in C++ than in Delphi. Would that not sort of follow considering that the VCL is easier to accomodate in OOP than in C++? Do they not use the same features/limitations? Rob Refactoring is syntax-dependent. AFAIK, it uses the existing CodeDOM code, and that may be a little complicated in C++. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de "Don't be so humble - you are not that great." -- Golda Meir (1898-1978) to a visiting diplomat Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 6:27 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 "Robby Tanner" <robby_tanner (AT) hotmail (DOT) com> writes: Quote: Would that not sort of follow considering that the VCL is easier to accomodate in OOP than in C++? Do they not use the same features/limitations? Considering class and function templates, macros, typedefs, and so on, refactoring in C++ is MUCH harder to do because the IDE has to be almost as smart as a compiler. Delphi is a far simpler language to parse and evaluate. -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top Thomas Guest Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 9:16 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote: Quote: Considering class and function templates, macros, typedefs, and so on, refactoring in C++ is MUCH harder to do because the IDE has to be almost as smart as a compiler. Delphi is a far simpler language to parse and evaluate. You are right, but there are tools like SlickEdit which do the job for instance with Visual C++, Gcc etc.. We tried SlickEdit with Borland, but we failed because of the compiler extensions and the stl implementation. The Parser of SlickEdit didn't tolerate some of the constructs, because they are not ANSI ! We even managed to get around the compiler extensions for the VCL. But then the used STL with some special constructs was the barrier (both Rogue Wave and stlport !). With SlickEdit you can do: Renaming, Modify Parameters, Pull Up, Push Down, Extract Class, Extract Superclass, Move Method, Move Static Field, etc. It would be nice to see such features sometimes also in the BCB IDE. This would be added value for all those poor guys who have to refactor some 100.000 lines of code. This would perfectly match to the current product policy of Borland. Thomas Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 "David Perkins" <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Is this really all we're getting? Initially, yes. Other refactoring will be added later. Gambit Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 5:59 am    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 Thomas <thomas.vieten (AT) skynet (DOT) be> writes: ... Quote: It would be nice to see such features sometimes also in the BCB IDE. I don't think anyone is disputing that! Quote: This would be added value for all those poor guys who have to refactor some 100.000 lines of code. This would perfectly match to the current product policy of Borland. Indeed. However, BCB is getting a new IDE, an updated compiler, an updated VCL, and a lot of other things too. They can't do everything, and must make decisions about what will be included. I would be surprised if they didn't--and would even expect--them to choose to add more refactoring options in the future. (Assuming they are feasible to implement.) -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top Jarrod Hollingworth Guest Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Refactoring in BCB2006 "Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" wrote: Quote: Initially, yes. Other refactoring will be added later. Well there will be two, if you count "Find References" (it was listed under Refactoring in slides presented by John K. today in Melbourne, Aust). -- Regards, Jarrod Hollingworth ++ Q1: Where do you spend your time? ++ Q2: Are your projects profitable? ++ Q3: Are you billing your customers accurately? ++ A : Complete Time Tracking ++ Track your time EASILY and ACCURATELY ++ http://www.complete-time-tracking.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.