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Des O'Toole
Guest
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 Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:00 pm Post subject: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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I was just wondering what everyone thinks will be the most likely outcome of
Borland's 15th Dec decision
I've been giving the matter some thought lately, and personally I think that
the
most likely scenario is that they will announce that they plan to integrate
BCB into BDS2006 ... BUT it will be .NET only (ie. no Win32). Possibly also
with an announcement that they will issue a BCB6 update patch in the
meantime.
Anyone else care to speculate on the most likely contents of any
announcement. Here are some possible scenarios (feel free to add more)
a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
b.) BCB to be discontinued.
c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
e.) .NET only BCB integration into BDS
f.) BCB to be patched/updated as standalone product.
g.) ???
Des
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Pete Fraser
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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Seeing as Delphi 2005 is already Win32/.NET, I can't see any reason why it
shouldn't be
Win32 AND .NET and it may also be C++/CLI i.e. .NET 2.0.
I can see no reason why they would continue to support BCB outside the BDS
framework - except possibly to give us a simple update while we wait for
the real version.
Rgds Pete
"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | I was just wondering what everyone thinks will be the most likely outcome
of
Borland's 15th Dec decision
I've been giving the matter some thought lately, and personally I think
that the
most likely scenario is that they will announce that they plan to
integrate
BCB into BDS2006 ... BUT it will be .NET only (ie. no Win32). Possibly
also
with an announcement that they will issue a BCB6 update patch in the
meantime.
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Andrue Cope [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:19 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | Anyone else care to speculate on the most likely contents of any
announcement. Here are some possible scenarios (feel free to add more)
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g)Win32 support added to BDS and released as an x.5 update.
But I stress that this is my guess/hope. I'm as much in the dark as
anyone else. I can't see .NET appearing for a while but I really hope
that Borland will push out an interim version. Even if it's just BCB6
as a BDS personality it'd help. My wish is for a better IDE first,
language and VCL updates second.
--
Andrue Cope [TeamB]
[Bicester, Uk]
http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:32 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Pete Fraser" <pete._no_spam_fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.net> wrote
| Quote: | Seeing as Delphi 2005 is already Win32/.NET, I can't see any reason why it
shouldn't be
Win32 AND .NET and it may also be C++/CLI i.e. .NET 2.0.
I can see no reason why they would continue to support BCB outside the BDS
framework - except possibly to give us a simple update while we wait for
the real version.
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If Borland are intending to wait until BDS 2006 before releasing a BCB
replacement, then they are going to be gazing into their crystal ball to try
and predict what the C++ programming landscape might look like in a years
time. If they decide that .NET C++ is going to be mainstream by then, they
may come to the conclusion that any Win32 C++ work that they will have done
in the meantime will have been largely a waste of time.
If they start thinking along this route, then they may be tempted to wait
for C++/CLI with a view to licensing MS's compiler rather than spending more
man-hours on their own.
Obviously this is all just speculation. Personally I would much prefer a new
Win32 offering, but I'm just trying to weigh-up if a .NET only offering in a
years time would be enough to keep me with Borland.
Des
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Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:10 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | ... BUT it will be .NET only (ie. no Win32).
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I seriously doubt that. Win32 is easier to support than .NET. Plus, not
supporting Win32 would make legacy apps unmaintainable in the new version.
Borland has already said that supporting Win32 is very important and that
Win32 would be supported - IF - BCB is continued. Besides, BDS already
supports Win32 anyway, and there would be no point in continuing BCB at all
if Win32 is not supported. They already have Dephi and C# support for .NET.
| Quote: | Possibly also with an announcement that they will issue
a BCB6 update patch in the meantime.
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Patches to BCB6 are likely. They said as much as BorCon.
| Quote: | a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
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They already commited themselves to that specific date. For them to not
release information by that date would be very bad for Borland.
| Quote: | b.) BCB to be discontinued.
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BCB, as a standalone application, will most likely be discontinued.
BCB, as a technology (Win32 VCL RAD development), will most likely carry on
in BDS. BDS has a newer IDE, newer VCL, newer Win32 support, etc. The
existing BCB RAD technology works in BDS, it has already been tested and
proven. This makes more sense, from a development standpoint, then trying to
update the current BCB IDE to the latest libraries and specs - the work has
already been done in BDS.
| Quote: | c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
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Possible, but probably not likely.
| Quote: | d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
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Very likely. Especially since the new C++ standard for .NET, which is
currently in the works, should be finished being standardized by that time,
I think. C++ is becoming a top-level citizen in .NET, next to VB, C#,
Delphi, etc. so it makes sense at that point for Borland to carry on C++
support in BDS. The new language keywords and such for C++ under .NET are
allowing C++ to maintain all of its current features as a language
(pointers, dynamic memory, templates, etc), so implementation of C++ into
BDS should be trivial for Borland - the C++ compiler technology already
exists, and the general .NET support already exists, they just need to be
hooked together.
| Quote: | e.) .NET only BCB integration into BDS
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Very doubtful.
| Quote: | f.) BCB to be patched/updated as standalone product.
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BCB7 using the existing IDE, just updated, is unlikely. Patches to fix
issues in the current BCB6 IDE, however, is likely.
Gambit
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Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:14 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | If Borland are intending to wait until BDS 2006 before releasing
a BCB replacement, then they are going to be gazing into their
crystal ball to try and predict what the C++ programming landscape
might look like in a years time.
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They already know what it is.
| Quote: | If they decide that .NET C++ is going to be mainstream by then
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It will not be mainstream in just a year. There is plenty of active Win32
development still going on. It may pick up in a year, but I doubt .NET will
be mainstream over Win32 anytime in, say, 5 years minimum. Besides, even
though C++/CLI is on fast-track standardization for a quick release, the
standard is not established yet, and then there is still the development
time after standardization to actually implement the standard.
| Quote: | they may come to the conclusion that any Win32 C++ work that
they will have done in the meantime will have been largely a waste
of time.
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Highly unlikely. Win32 is very dominant still.
Gambit
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Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:15 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Andrue Cope [TeamB]" <no.spam (AT) not (DOT) a.valid.address> wrote
| Quote: | My wish is for a better IDE first, language and VCL updates second.
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Going to BDS satisfies the first request a lot more than updating the
existing IDE, and the second request is implicitally satisfied by moving to
BDS as well (well, maybe not the language part).
Gambit
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Harold Howe [TeamB]
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:21 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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| Quote: | a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
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Based on the past 14 months, this is sadly, a distinct possibility. It
is the most likely possibility, IMO. Hopefully I will be wrong in the
end, but I'm not going to get my hopes up in the face of overwhelming
historical evidence to the contrary.
| Quote: | b.) BCB to be discontinued.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
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If there is an announcement, I think it will be between these two (minus
the .net support).
| Quote: | c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
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I don't think this will happen. The most important thing to Borland
regarding Delphi is .net 2.0. They said as much at borcon. If they elect
to incorporate a C++ personality into Delphi, it will not come at the
expense of .net 2.0 support.
Because of this, I don't see a BDS 2005 1.5 w/ C++ support happening.
| Quote: | e.) .NET only BCB integration into BDS
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I don't see this happening either. Borland does not currently own a C++
compiler that can compile VCL extensions and produce IL code.
| Quote: | f.) BCB to be patched/updated as standalone product.
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Not likely either IMO.
H^2
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OBones
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: | c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
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I'd like the first one (which means 1st semester 2005) but I guess the
second one is more likely.
All in all, I doubt it will be priced reasonnably and I won't be able to
migrate to it anyway. But I wouldn't mind to have a preview version to
test the JVCL on it <wink to TeamB>
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Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB)
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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OBones <obones_ssspp (AT) fsdqfs_altern (DOT) org> writes:
| Quote: | Des O'Toole wrote:
c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
I'd like the first one (which means 1st semester 2005) but I guess
the second one is more likely. All in all, I doubt it will be
priced reasonnably and I won't be able to migrate to it anyway. But
I wouldn't mind to have a preview version to test the JVCL on it
wink to TeamB
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If it were up to me you'd have it. <g> But TeamB has absolutly
nothing to do with such decisions. We don't even work for Borland...
--
Chris (TeamB);
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David Cameron
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:08 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
b.) BCB to be discontinued.
c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
e.) .NET only BCB integration into BDS
f.) BCB to be patched/updated as standalone product.
g.) ???
Des
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a) or b)
g) announcement, but non commital :(
Dave
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Des O'Toole
Guest
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| Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 11:30 pm Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"David Cameron" <nomail (AT) to (DOT) me> wrote
| Quote: | g) announcement, but non commital 
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Very plausible. Also I wonder - if whatever they promise is not for
inclusion until BDS2006 - how much anyone is going to believe/trust them.
Des
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Randall Parker
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 1:32 am Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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Here is my list in order of probability:
1) No annoumcement on Dec. 15 or in January 2005 for that matter.
2) BCB to stay dead. (they can't announce its death since it is already dead)
3) Win32 BCB integration into BDS 2006.
4) Win32/.NET integration into BDS 2006.
If they do 3 or 4 we might see a BCB V6 sp5 in 2005. I do not expect to see 3 or 4
yield a better BCB in a new release in the year 2005.
I think the biggest argument for Borland to not kill off BCB entirely is that C++ is
just such a hugely popular language and its future in .NET has gotten much brighter
due to MS's change of course on the relative importance of C# versus C++ for .NET. On
the other hand, C++ is a language that takes more work to support than OP or Java
take. Borland is lagging in standards support. So I don't know where Borland will
come down on this decision.
Des O'Toole wrote:
| Quote: |
a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
b.) BCB to be discontinued.
c.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2005 V1.5.
d.) Win32/.NET BCB integration into BDS 2006.
e.) .NET only BCB integration into BDS
f.) BCB to be patched/updated as standalone product.
g.) ???
Des
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Remy Lebeau (TeamB)
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 3:25 am Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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"Des O'Toole" <des> wrote
| Quote: | a.) No announcement by 15 Dec.
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According to representatives inside Borland, the letter is still on-schedule
for a December 15th release. What the contents of the letter are going to
be, I do not know.
Gambit
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OBones
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Speculation about 15th Dec decision |
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Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) wrote:
| Quote: | If it were up to me you'd have it. <g> But TeamB has absolutly
nothing to do with such decisions. We don't even work for Borland...
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I know, but if you could slip a word (is this correct English?) to
Borland, or even better, if a Borland employee reads this, who knows
what might happen <vbg>
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