BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Spot the difference? Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Patrick McConnell Guest Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Spot the difference? Seen on bdn: 11 Mar Delphi 8 and Win32 update details Michael Swindell comments on the future of Delphi for .NET and Win32 "We do recognize that Win32 support continues to be important for many Delphi developers, particularly for maintaining existing applications but also for new application development. As such we also plan to continue supporting and developing new Delphi Win32 features for the foreseeable future." Patrick Back to top Kenneth de Camargo Guest Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Patrick McConnell wrote: Quote: Seen on bdn: 11 Mar Delphi 8 and Win32 update details Michael Swindell comments on the future of Delphi for .NET and Win32 "We do recognize that Win32 support continues to be important for many Delphi developers, particularly for maintaining existing applications but also for new application development. As such we also plan to continue supporting and developing new Delphi Win32 features for the foreseeable future." Makes one wonder why on earth someone would think this does not apply to C++ people... -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ * this is not a sig * Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Kenneth de Camargo wrote: Quote: "We do recognize that Win32 support continues to be important for many Delphi developers, particularly for maintaining existing applications but also for new application development. As such we also plan to continue supporting and developing new Delphi Win32 features for the foreseeable future." Makes one wonder why on earth someone would think this does not apply to C++ people... Not sure what you mean by this. How about: because he mentioned Delph and did not mention C++? Or how about: Because Borland released BCBX without a VCL designer? Or try: Because Borland tells its Delphi customers a lot more about the future than it tells its C++ customers. Back to top Patrick McConnell Guest Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:14 am    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:407C76E7.2030104 (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com... .... Quote: Not sure what you mean by this. .... Randall, you and Kenneth agree. Trust me, I understand how tempting it is to reach out and smack someone right now, but Kenneth ain't the guy. Here's my own little point of view: I've been working for the better part of two years, first part time and weekends, and lately full time, on a deep-development project using BCB as my main tool. Leaving out the gory details, lets just say I use the VCL to create things that I further manipulate using Windows API calls. And some serious COM using the ATL. Why did I chose the VCL? Sigh. I had confidence that cross-platform development would one day come to Borland's C++ tools. Of course the API calls and COM would have to be changed, but it's designed with that in mind. I'm just reaching the prototype stage, which is good...but. Every line of code I write leaves me with the rotten feeling I'm just going to have to do it over again. In spite of that, it would make no sense to change tools right now so I keep plodding. If anyone on the planet can make a better case that Win32 needs to be supported, I'd sure love to hear it. Hell, at this point I'd settle for knowing I'll be able to call CreateWindowEx and CComObjectRootEx without the VCL or wizards or anything. I've stayed up late before, it's just a little more work. Here is what I suspect Borland's strategy is: CBX is intended to be a way to facilitate cross platform porting of things built *using other people's tools*. I suspect this because they clearly emphasize the number of different peoples' compilers it can work with. And a couple of other things. Borland does not believe the VCL.net provides everything everyone needs to develop applications on Windows, their public statements to the Delphi community prove this. Even Microsoft doesn't believe that, otherwise VS.net wouldn't still have, oh for example, MFC. However, Borland never planned to strongly support win32 development on CBX. Their recommendation is to use BCB, a product that resembles a '58 Rambler sitting in a farmers field with weeds growing through the floor. WX is irrelevant. Actually making the GUI of any app I've ever worked on took about 10% of the time. Perhaps I can use WX the same way I am using the VCL, to create things that I grab the handles for so I can call Windows. But how do I call Windows? With my BCB headers? See above. The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that CBX is intended to be used as a porting tool and not as a development tool. So I buy VS and use their headers? AND I buy CBX? Why on earth would I do that? Patrick Back to top Kenneth de Camargo Guest Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:17 am    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Patrick McConnell wrote: Quote: Randall, you and Kenneth agree. Trust me, I understand how tempting it is to reach out and smack someone right now, but Kenneth ain't the guy. Did I miss something? -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ * this is not a sig * Back to top Mark Van Ditta Guest Posted: Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:54 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Delphi is a unique product with a unique language (i.e., Borland has no competition in the Object Pascal world), and the practitioners who use it are fiercely loyal. Back to top Frank Gruber Guest Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:57 am    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Quote: Delphi is a unique product with a unique language (i.e., Borland has no competition in the Object Pascal world), and the practitioners who use it are fiercely loyal. I see most of the Delphi users praying silently every day that they are not hit by that "This product no longer generates enough revenue" thing. ;-) Frank. Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. Rgds Pete "Patrick McConnell" <p.mcconnell (AT) elisenGUESSWHATTHISISFOR (DOT) com> wrote in message news:407cd5ea (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:407C76E7.2030104 (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com... The only conclusion that makes sense to me is that CBX is intended to be used as a porting tool and not as a development tool. So I buy VS and use their headers? AND I buy CBX? Why on earth would I do that? Back to top Patrick McConnell Guest Posted: Thu Apr 15, 2004 6:42 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? "Pete Fraser" <pete.fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.com> wrote Quote: The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. I didn't know that and haven't been able to find any information about it. If it's just the compiler, what real good would it be? ie I doubt I could seriously make .net apps in CBX with just the vs.net compiler and nothing else. Or could I? Patrick Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 6:37 am    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Herb Sutter said it was out in the next week and he should know. You may need a few days patience. Yes, you will need a designer so hopefully Borland will get that side of things working for the next version of BCBX. But you can design without one Rgds Pete "Patrick McConnell" <p.mcconnell (AT) elisenGuessWhatThisIsFor (DOT) com> wrote in message news:407ed821$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: "Pete Fraser" <pete.fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.com> wrote in message news:407ed273 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. I didn't know that and haven't been able to find any information about it. If it's just the compiler, what real good would it be? ie I doubt I could seriously make .net apps in CBX with just the vs.net compiler and nothing else. Or could I? Patrick Back to top Hendrik Schober Guest Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 8:26 am    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Pete Fraser <pete.fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.com> wrote: Quote: The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. Reference? Quote: Rgds Pete [...] Schobi -- [email]SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de[/email] is never read I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org "Sometimes compilers are so much more reasonable than people." Scott Meyers Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 4:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Herb Sutter said it was a special announcement at the ACCU spring conference yesterday. (Mind you another MS guy said today that one of the main reasons for buying the new Visual C++.NET was the new compiler - perhaps MS guys don't talk to each other) It should be announced on the 'visualc' site on MSDN in the next few days. HTH Pete "Hendrik Schober" <SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de> wrote Quote: Pete Fraser <pete.fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.com> wrote: The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. Reference? Back to top Mike Swaim Guest Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 5:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? Pete Fraser wrote: Quote: The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. Will it be the same one as the stand alone C++ compiler. (For those that don't know, the stand alone compiler doesn't do any optimisations. You have to get Visual Studio to get the optimising compiler. This has annoyed many people.) -- Mike Swaim [email]swaim (AT) hal-pc (DOT) org[/email] at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D MD Anderson Dept. of Biostatistics & Applied Mathematics [email]mpswaim (AT) mdanderson (DOT) org[/email] or [email]mswaim (AT) odin (DOT) mdacc.tmc.edu[/email] at work Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson. Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Fri Apr 16, 2004 7:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? I'm not sure about that. Herb didn't mention details like that, but I think he said it was the same one in VS.NET so ..... Rgds Pete "Mike Swaim" <mswaim (AT) odin (DOT) mdacc.tmc.edu> wrote Quote: Pete Fraser wrote: The visual C++.NET compiler will be available for free download in the next week. Free as in free for commercial use and costs nothing. Will it be the same one as the stand alone C++ compiler. (For those that don't know, the stand alone compiler doesn't do any optimisations. You have to get Visual Studio to get the optimising compiler. This has annoyed many people.) -- Mike Swaim [email]swaim (AT) hal-pc (DOT) org[/email] at home | Quote: "Boingie"^4 Y,W & D MD Anderson Dept. of Biostatistics & Applied Mathematics [email]mpswaim (AT) mdanderson (DOT) org[/email] or [email]mswaim (AT) odin (DOT) mdacc.tmc.edu[/email] at work Disclaimer: Yeah, like I speak for MD Anderson. Back to top Patrick McConnell Guest Posted: Sun Apr 18, 2004 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Spot the difference? "Pete Fraser" <pete.fraser (AT) frasersoft (DOT) nospam.com> wrote Quote: Herb Sutter said it was out in the next week and he should know. You may need a few days patience. Yes, you will need a designer so hopefully Borland will get that side of things working for the next version of BCBX. But you can design without one Rgds Pete My understanding is the next version of BCBX will support VCL.net with C++ and managed extensions. 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