BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Student Version Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message TheBigBadWolf Guest Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 5:35 pm    Post subject: Student Version Hi Maybe this topic has been discussed before, but this is a point I really don't understand. At "Technische Universität" in Vienna students can buy Visual Studio (professional on dvd) for 18Euro. http://sts.tuwien.ac.at/sss/vsn/ and many other products for less than 10Euro. http://sts.tuwien.ac.at/sss.php (sorry both links are german only) But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. wolf Back to top Alvaro GP Guest Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. Hi wolf, don't worry, Delphi doesn't need the university to be a standard development tool. BTW, the standards are established by Microsoft, not the university. ;-) Back to top Robert Love Guest Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 10:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. There educational versions of Delphi and other Borland Products available with and educational discount. It states there if you have questions regarding to the program to use borland.public.delphi.students Details can be found here: http://info.borland.com/education/ -- Robert Love - [email]robert.love (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email] My Blog: http://peakxml.com SLC Utah Delphi Users Group: http://www.slcdug.org Place your Delphi Blog Here (For Free!): http://blogs.slcdug.org Back to top Derek Davidson Guest Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:40 pm    Post subject: Re: Student Version Robert Love wrote: Quote: Details can be found here: http://info.borland.com/education/ I think that's a bit out of date. Though the page reports as having last been modified in Feb 2003, this statement seems very outdated: "Integrating the Educational Enterprise By David Intersimone, Director of Developer Relations" AFAICR the phrase 'Integrating the ... Enterprise' hasn't been used since the Pizza man era and Intersimone has been a VP for a number of years now. Perhaps it's time for Borland to revisit this section? -- Derek Davidson http://www.enterpriseblue.com For the world's EASIEST Help Desk software Now Verified for Microsoft Windows Server 2003 Back to top Alan Garny Guest Posted: Sun Aug 29, 2004 11:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Student Version "Alvaro GP" <renedescartes (AT) wanadoo (DOT) es> wrote Quote: But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. Hi wolf, don't worry, Delphi doesn't need the university to be a standard development tool. The market doesn't seem to agree with you... Quote: BTW, the standards are established by Microsoft, not the university. Exactly! Alan. Back to top Alan Garny Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 12:02 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version "Robert Love" <robert.love (AT) gmail (DOT) com > wrote Quote: But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. There educational versions of Delphi and other Borland Products available with and educational discount. Have you seen their educational discount? Sure, it's *much* better than the retail price, but it's a joke compared to what Microsoft and other companies offer (including small ones). Alan. Back to top Lauchlan M Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:14 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: Have you seen their educational discount? Sure, it's *much* better than the retail price, but you can't do commercial development with it. You can with the MS licence. Quote: but it's a joke compared to what Microsoft [...] offer Yep. If you're doing primarily .net stuff, then go straight for VS.NET 2003 (or if you have more money, MSDN Universal at student pricing which includes it and gets you lots of other stuff including the newest betas). Cheaper than Delphi 8, and you can do commercial stuff with it. If you're doing primarily win 32, then choose Delphi and: (i) if it's just a learning exercise, get the academic version of Delphi 7 (ii) if you have commercial plans, you need to get the full commercial version (at commercial pricing) of Delphi 7 HTH, Lauchlan M Back to top JED Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 3:38 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Lauchlan M wrote: Quote: Have you seen their educational discount? Sure, it's much better than the retail price, but you can't do commercial development with it. You can with the MS licence. So what. I don't see any problem with having to buy the full version if I am going to make money from something I build with it. -- JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/ Alpha 3.0 - Released August 23, 2004 Climbing on the wagon at: http://njed.blogspot.com/ JED, QC Blog: http://jedqc.blogspot.com/ Back to top Lauchlan M Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: Have you seen their educational discount? Sure, it's much better than the retail price, but you can't do commercial development with it. You can with the MS licence. So what. I don't see any problem with having to buy the full version if I am going to make money from something I build with it. Right. But you're a commercial developer, not a student. The point is that Borland's academic product is not competitive with MS's academic offering. You can get the whole MSDN Universal at academic pricing for less than the cost of Delphi 7 or 8 pro. Lauchlan M Back to top JED Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 5:46 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Lauchlan M wrote: Quote: Right. But you're a commercial developer, not a student. But they are a student not a commercial developer. Quote: The point is that Borland's academic product is not competitive with MS's academic offering. Yeah, but Borland has to make profits on its tools to survive. Microsoft does not. That's a big difference. -- JED, QC - Win32 Client for Quality Central: http://www.alphalink.com.au/~jed/QC/ Alpha 3.0 - Released August 23, 2004 Climbing on the wagon at: http://njed.blogspot.com/ JED, QC Blog: http://jedqc.blogspot.com/ Back to top El Lobo Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 6:51 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version "Alvaro GP" <renedescartes (AT) wanadoo (DOT) es> wrote Quote: But Delphi is missing in the list. WHY? I mean, Delphi will never be a "standard" development tool if it isn't used at universities. Yes, but an university is not an Inprise..emmm, I mean an Enterprise. Now seriously, I work for an university. I remember being a student on the late 80s. The de-facto compilers used at the university back those days were (at least at MY university): Turbo Pascal Turbo C Turbo Assembler and some obscure version of Fortran ( I can't remember which one now). Today at this university I work at the students got courses on: C++ , C#, VB (using Visual studio) Java using Sun's tools No Borland in sight. The students have the right of purchasing VS 2003 Proffesional for about 25 Euro. More than so, if you purchase a new computer at the university, as a student of informatics you got (preinstalled) MS VS 2003 too. (The computer comes with both Windows AND FreeBDS installed). Of course , you can also buy a Mac :-) Back to top Lauchlan M Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:09 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: Right. But you're a commercial developer, not a student. But they are a student not a commercial developer. The point is that Borland's academic product is not competitive with MS's academic offering. Yeah, but Borland has to make profits on its tools to survive. Microsoft does not. That's a big difference. Yes, they are both businesses. But you seem to think being competitive in what is offered to students would be a _bad_ thing, whereas I think it would be a _good_ thing. The students of today are the developers of tomorrow, and if they have already made their choices, then there is a real impact on Borland's bottom line a few years down the road. But, it's Borland's prerogative how they want to manage or mismanage their business. I think it would be smarter to be competitive at the university level, but Borland marketing presumably have had their people looking at this issue already and have already come to whatever conclusions they did. Or maybe this issue is just not on their radar. Lauchlan M Back to top TheBigBadWolf Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:17 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: http://info.borland.com/education/ Clicking on Academic Partner Program Options gives me : ERROR 404: Sorry, the page you have requested does not exist (http://info.borland.com/programs/partners/options/bap/) I mean that says it all. wolf Back to top El Lobo Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version "Lauchlan M" <LMackinnon (AT) NOSPAMHotmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: The students of today are the developers of tomorrow, and if they have already made their choices, then there is a real impact on Borland's bottom line a few years down the road. I can only agree with that. The reason why I use Delphi today is me using Turbo Pascal back where I was a studen at the university in the late 80s. Back to top TheBigBadWolf Guest Posted: Mon Aug 30, 2004 7:52 am    Post subject: Re: Student Version Quote: Yeah, but Borland has to make profits on its tools to survive. Microsoft does not. That's a big difference. That is a difference, but what are the conclusions? Although MS does not "has to make profits" it DOES. I don't think the situation can be compared to a supermarket that gives away some product with deficit but this offer allures so many people they still have profit with other products. The situation is different. Students don't us Delphi. So where is the risk in giving them the product for free? How did you decide your favorite programming language? Did you try all languages avaliable in the age of 15 and used the "best" thenceforwards? I took what we had (incidentally pascal) and used it thenceforwards. Another point is: The link in my first post also contains all recent Office products , some Windows versions and Visio (all of them for about 6Euro). With one of the products they "have to make profits" to survive, don't they? wolf Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.