BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Terrain Rendering          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Graphics View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Jim Guest Posted: Sun Nov 21, 2004 10:13 pm    Post subject: Terrain Rendering Anyone point me in the direction of a non OpenGL way to do Terrain Rendering. This is not for animation, other than rotation, so optimal speed is not a necessity. It just needs to work on any video card and version of Windows. DirectX is fine but I have not found exactly what I am looking for yet. Most DirectX sites seem to be quite old. Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Tomaz Koritnik Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 7:32 am    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi What kind of a terraing would you like to render? Do you want to paint each pixel with color based on terrain height at that position? Like when height 0 color is light green, at 1000 meters goes from brown to maybee orange and at 3000 meters becomes white. This is quite simple to acomplish using gradients. regards Tomaz "Jim" <jimdk (AT) mindspring00 (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Anyone point me in the direction of a non OpenGL way to do Terrain Rendering. This is not for animation, other than rotation, so optimal speed is not a necessity. It just needs to work on any video card and version of Windows. DirectX is fine but I have not found exactly what I am looking for yet. Most DirectX sites seem to be quite old. Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 10:54 am    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: This is not for animation, other than rotation, so optimal speed is not a necessity. It just needs to work on any video card and version of Windows. You could try with OpenGL + MESA 3D (software OpenGL). If you really want to run anywhere with exactly the same aspect, software rendering may be your only option. Eric Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi, Quote: What kind of a terraing would you like to render? Do you want to paint each pixel with color based on terrain height at that position? Like when height 0 color is light green, at 1000 meters goes from brown to maybee orange and at 3000 meters becomes white. This is quite simple to acomplish using gradients. Yes that would be fine. I am not looking for ultra realistic texturing. I want to be able to "create a landscape" to see how model railway track fits into the scene. Something like this: http://www.trackplanning.com/meshes/index.htm The control to create the landscape here is limited so I want to 1) learn about this technology 2) create a more controllable landscape application Also the Fractal trees are interesting, is there an info for this out there? Thanks, Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi, Quote: You could try with OpenGL + MESA 3D (software OpenGL). If you really want to run anywhere with exactly the same aspect, software rendering may be your only option. I looked at that but it appears that it only can be down-loaded in source form and you need a C++ compiler to build it. Am I missing something? Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi Eric, Quote: They come in the form of an "opengl32.dll" which you basicly place in your application directory, the application will then use MESA instead of the Windows or hardware drivers. Ok, got it but same issue. When I try to run the OpenGL Framework and Framework2 demos I get a "WGL_ARB_extenstions_string" not found error. What fails is here: procedure TDotTempWindow.FormCreate(Sender: TObject); var err: Integer; begin try FDC := GetDC(Handle); dotInitDC(FDC); FRC := wglCreateContext(FDC); if FRC = 0 then begin err := GetLastError; raise EDotException.CreateFmt('Couldn''t create temporary context.' + #10 + '%d: %s', [err, dotWin32ErrorString(err)]); end; wglMakeCurrent(FDC, FRC); *********************** <<<< FAILS wglGetExtensionsStringARB := wglGetProcAddress('wglGetExtensionsStringARB'); if not Assigned(wglGetExtensionsStringARB) then raise EDotException.Create('WGL_ARB_extensions_string not found!'); *********************** <<<< FAILS if not glext_LoadExtension('WGL_ARB_pixel_format') then <<<< FAILS raise EDotException.Create('WGL_ARB_pixel_format not found!'); except on E: Exception do begin MessageDlg(E.Message, mtError, [mbOK], 0); Halt(1); end; end; end; -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: I looked at that but it appears that it only can be down-loaded in source form and you need a C++ compiler to build it. Am I missing something? Several precompiled binaries for the 4, 5 and 6 versions are available here: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=29749 They come in the form of an "opengl32.dll" which you basicly place in your application directory, the application will then use MESA instead of the Windows or hardware drivers. Eric Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi, Quote: OpenGL Framework and Framework2 demos Sorry, don't know about these... No I am sorry these are from OpenGL not GLScene. Downloading now. Thanks. jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 2:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: No I am sorry these are from OpenGL not GLScene. Yes it was Delphi3D and the Delphi OpenGL Toolkit. I need to make some coffee and wake up! Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: Ok, got it but same issue. When I try to run the OpenGL Framework and Framework2 demos I get a "WGL_ARB_extenstions_string" not found error. Unless you require pixel buffers or fragment/vertex programs, you shouldn't need WGL_ARB_extensions_string, maybe you're starting from code that is intended to make use of recent hardware and its features? Quote: OpenGL Framework and Framework2 demos Sorry, don't know about these... There are some terrain demos in GLScene (http://glscene.org) which range from basic heightfield to ROAM real-time tessellation. Eric Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: No I am sorry these are from OpenGL not GLScene. I googled the 'TDotTempWindow' and if I'm not mistaken you were using the 'Dot' library from Delphi3D, so you may want to report the issue there, but IIRC Dot is intended for OpenGL 1.5+, so it's unlikely Tom will want to support older OpenGL revisions. Eric Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 4:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi, Quote: There are some terrain demos in GLScene (http://glscene.org) which range from basic heightfield to ROAM real-time tessellation. Amazing. Can you give me a push in the right direction? I want to define an area, make it a rectangle for now, and I want to be able to dynamically create/modify the height data for the map. Is the Shaded Terrain Demo the type of rendering I want? Or the Terrain Demo? Which ever is the right way to go do you know of any good web resources on the subject? Thanks, Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Jim Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Hi again, Quote: Well, it depends on what exactly you're after (in terms of terrain size, performance, interactivity and texturing/coloring), and in what form your terrain data comes (as a grid of samples? sparse DB points? gigabyte-sized dataset? etc.) Look at my response to Tomaz to see what I am up to. The height map will be controlled by the user to make it "look right". What I want it to do is be a visualization tool for creating model scenery. Jim -- www.mustangpeak.net Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Mon Nov 22, 2004 5:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: Amazing. Can you give me a push in the right direction? I want to define an area, make it a rectangle for now, and I want to be able to dynamically create/modify the height data for the map. Well, it depends on what exactly you're after (in terms of terrain size, performance, interactivity and texturing/coloring), and in what form your terrain data comes (as a grid of samples? sparse DB points? gigabyte-sized dataset? etc.) Most simple approach is the one in graphheightfield or fxy, if your terrain size is limited, using a heightfield can also be the most efficient way. If you got something more complex in terms of size, you might have to investigate ROAM rendering, as meshesterrain, synthterr or shadedterrain, but be aware these are a notch above in complexity. For interactive terrain navigation, there are more advanced demos, but these don't fit your need as far as I understood them. Quote: Is the Shaded Terrain Demo the type of rendering I want? Or the Terrain Demo? Both use ROAM, "terrain" uses a static texture to paint the terrain, shaded terrain uses dynamic lighting (bumpmapping) and paletting, if you want to be fast on all hardware, you'll probably want to avoid texturing however. Quote: Which ever is the right way to go do you know of any good web resources on the subject? There are many ressources on the subject, the most extensive ressource is probably http://www.vterrain.org/ (not Delphi specific though). For more specific question, you can post on the GLScene newsgroups news://forums.talkto.net/glscene.general with details on your exact requirements, odds are someone may have faced a similar problem. Eric Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Tue Nov 23, 2004 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Terrain Rendering Quote: Look at my response to Tomaz to see what I am up to. The height map will be controlled by the user to make it "look right". What I want it to do is be a visualization tool for creating model scenery. Depending on the terrain resolution, a heightfield could be enough then, as you could specify color per sample instead of using texturing. Also, for such a simple case of texturing, you should be okay with hardware acceleration. 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