BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  to Danny Thorpe Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Language BASM View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Roby Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:11 am    Post subject: to Danny Thorpe kind Danny, sorry to bother, I write here because I know that you read this group, and like also share thoughts with other smart developers of basm. I like ask for Delphi 2006 Update1 the linker compatibility with lib files of visual studio or ms objects or masm/nasm objects. I know that in BCC exist a tool that convert COFF<->OMF but this work bad. I see that many projects, especially open one, are all in C++, and feel as delphi developers are moving away because is easy take any kind of code for example in sourceforge. Will be very cool be able to link directly a lib file and load header interfaces without use a dll or compile with Borland C++ and rewrote the headers, but simply linking the library as vstudio do. What's your opinion? Can be possible without too much efforts? The community like this capability from Delphi or it's only mine isolated request? Thank you and best regards. Roberto Back to top Eric Grange Guest Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:13 am    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe CPPBuilder could use Delphi source directly, it would be nice indeed if Delphi could use C++ stuff directly too (not necessarily MS formats, CPPB's would already be sweet... esp. with the upgraded C++ compiler that was announced for D2006). Eric Back to top Avatar Zondertau Guest Posted: Thu Nov 24, 2005 7:25 am    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Quote: sorry to bother, I write here because I know that you read this group, and like also share thoughts with other smart developers of basm. I like ask for Delphi 2006 Update1 the linker compatibility with lib files of visual studio or ms objects or masm/nasm objects. I know that in BCC exist a tool that convert COFF<->OMF but this work bad. I see that many projects, especially open one, are all in C++, and feel as delphi developers are moving away because is easy take any kind of code for example in sourceforge. Will be very cool be able to link directly a lib file and load header interfaces without use a dll or compile with Borland C++ and rewrote the headers, but simply linking the library as vstudio do. What's your opinion? Can be possible without too much efforts? The community like this capability from Delphi or it's only mine isolated request? Perhaps you should also post this to Quality Central. By posting it to the newsgroup you have a chance that someone from Borland reads it. By posting it to QC you have a guarantee of that (though, of course, the reader may not be Danny Thorpe). -- The Fastcode Project: http://www.fastcodeproject.org/ Back to top Roberto Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 10:31 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe hi! Thaddy informed me that D2006 permit to use C++ code inside delphi projects, directly. That's fantastic. Thank you Borland! "Eric Grange" <egrangeNO (AT) SPAMglscene (DOT) org> wrote Quote: CPPBuilder could use Delphi source directly, it would be nice indeed if Delphi could use C++ stuff directly too (not necessarily MS formats, CPPB's would already be sweet... esp. with the upgraded C++ compiler that was announced for D2006). Eric Back to top Jeff Overcash (TeamB) Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Roberto Della Pasqua wrote: Quote: hi! Thaddy informed me that D2006 permit to use C++ code inside delphi projects, directly. Thaddy is misinformed. There is nothing different from the Delphi side WRT C++ source. BDS 2006 comes with the C++ personality, but there is no more interoperability than before. The C++ personality can use Delphi code, but the Delphi personality can not use C++ code. Probably never will. -- Jeff Overcash (TeamB) (Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You) Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years. (R Bach) Back to top Roberto Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:50 am    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe ok :) "Avatar Zondertau" <avatarzt (AT) gmail (DOT) com (please reply to newsgroup)> wrote in message news:43856aec$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: sorry to bother, I write here because I know that you read this group, and like also share thoughts with other smart developers of basm. I like ask for Delphi 2006 Update1 the linker compatibility with lib files of visual studio or ms objects or masm/nasm objects. I know that in BCC exist a tool that convert COFF<->OMF but this work bad. I see that many projects, especially open one, are all in C++, and feel as delphi developers are moving away because is easy take any kind of code for example in sourceforge. Will be very cool be able to link directly a lib file and load header interfaces without use a dll or compile with Borland C++ and rewrote the headers, but simply linking the library as vstudio do. What's your opinion? Can be possible without too much efforts? The community like this capability from Delphi or it's only mine isolated request? Perhaps you should also post this to Quality Central. By posting it to the newsgroup you have a chance that someone from Borland reads it. By posting it to QC you have a guarantee of that (though, of course, the reader may not be Danny Thorpe). -- The Fastcode Project: http://www.fastcodeproject.org/ Back to top Thaddy Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:24 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Quote: Thaddy informed me that D2006 permit to use C++ code inside delphi projects, directly. Thaddy is misinformed. There is nothing different from the Delphi side WRT C++ No, Roby misinterpreted my information - *not* given on this forum, btw. I explained that Delphicode could be used in C++ projects, not the other way around. I also explained you could link C(++) obj files to Delphi projects and that such has always been the case. Back to top Roberto Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 1:08 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Thaddy, sorry me please. I have misunderstood your words, was not my intention. Anyway: plz if you like sign QC 21782. THANKS "Thaddy" <kol (AT) chello (DOT) nl> wrote Quote: Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Thaddy informed me that D2006 permit to use C++ code inside delphi projects, directly. Thaddy is misinformed. There is nothing different from the Delphi side WRT C++ No, Roby misinterpreted my information - *not* given on this forum, btw. I explained that Delphicode could be used in C++ projects, not the other way around. I also explained you could link C(++) obj files to Delphi projects and that such has always been the case. Back to top dageek Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Hello Thaddy, Quote: I explained that Delphicode could be used in C++ projects, not the other way around. I also explained you could link C(++) obj files to Delphi projects and that such has always been the case. Link C++ object files ? How then ? I was aware that Delphi was able to link C object files only ... regards dageek Back to top Jeff Overcash (TeamB) Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe dageek wrote: Quote: Hello Thaddy, I explained that Delphicode could be used in C++ projects, not the other way around. I also explained you could link C(++) obj files to Delphi projects and that such has always been the case. Link C++ object files ? How then ? I was aware that Delphi was able to link C object files only ... You can, but you have to fudge your Delphi class perfectly so the VMT is right. It is not something most people try to do. Why don't you just start your app as a C++ builder app and add the Pascal files you need. That is the simpler solution by far. Quote: regards dageek -- Jeff Overcash (TeamB) (Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You) Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years. (R Bach) Back to top Avatar Zondertau Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Quote: Thaddy, sorry me please. I have misunderstood your words, was not my intention. Anyway: plz if you like sign QC 21782. Your request has been marked "won't do" nearly immediately, with the following explanation: <quote> The C++ language ius too complex and does not map onto the Delphi language. Until someone comes up with a C++ to Delphi header conversion that works, this is not a possible thing to do. This is why it has never been done in the past. Nothing has changed to eliminate the reasons you can not directly link in C++ source. Borland has commented on the problems that stop them from doing this direction of code integration. </quote> -- The Fastcode Project: http://www.fastcodeproject.org/ Back to top Thaddy Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Avatar Zondertau wrote: Quote: Thaddy, sorry me please. I have misunderstood your words, was not my intention. Anyway: plz if you like sign QC 21782. Your request has been marked "won't do" nearly immediately, with the following explanation: quote The C++ language ius too complex and does not map onto the Delphi language. Until someone comes up with a C++ to Delphi header conversion that works, this is not a possible thing to do. This is why it has never been done in the past. Nothing has changed to eliminate the reasons you can not directly link in C++ source. Borland has commented on the problems that stop them from doing this direction of code integration. /quote Regarding the QC: It *has* been done in the past, but not with a high enough success rate to warrant a commercially successfull implementation. Bob's headerconvert is lost in space but the Freepascal guys have come a long, long way. So I accept the answer with reluctance. Regarding my friend Roby: We are actually good friends, are we not Roby? :) Regarding linking C++ obj files (made with OMF compatible compilers that is): It is not difficult at all, it is just the runtime libraries that are the problem - in my view -. I do it all the time and have a library that patches/stubs most common "disturbaces", ok ' disturbances' in pascal, like getmem/memset, freemem, reallocmem... etc. It is indeed lowlevel stuff and not for everyone. A tip would be to NOT use bare classes but bare objects, same memory layout as C++ classes. (And a considerable design flaw in Delphi, regarding interoperatibility between non .net languages) The class paradigm in delphi grew to allocate things that should not have been there in the first place. Objects are still an option, though ;) (Although f.e. www.zeitungsjunge.de contains frighteningly good examples, as does the JPEG lib interfaces and obj that come with delphi! read that code if you want to know how the basics work) What I need more is a MS compatible register calling convention (less effective than borland's.. mind you) I suggest a QC to do just that. Back to top Roberto Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:50 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe hmm... maybe plain C instead of C++ without need redo headers? "Avatar Zondertau" <avatarzt (AT) gmail (DOT) com (please reply to newsgroup)> wrote in message news:438c8dba (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Thaddy, sorry me please. I have misunderstood your words, was not my intention. Anyway: plz if you like sign QC 21782. Your request has been marked "won't do" nearly immediately, with the following explanation: quote The C++ language ius too complex and does not map onto the Delphi language. Until someone comes up with a C++ to Delphi header conversion that works, this is not a possible thing to do. This is why it has never been done in the past. Nothing has changed to eliminate the reasons you can not directly link in C++ source. Borland has commented on the problems that stop them from doing this direction of code integration. /quote -- The Fastcode Project: http://www.fastcodeproject.org/ Back to top Jeff Overcash (TeamB) Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Roberto Della Pasqua wrote: Quote: hmm... maybe plain C instead of C++ without need redo headers? The same problem exists. There is no working C header to Pas interface code that works reliably. People have been trying to come up with this for nearly a decade and there still is not one that you can plug in and it just works. C++ is an order of magnitude even worse. There are also RTL issues. Here are some of the other issues according the Danny Thorpe - "BCB code can link to and link in Delphi code, but Delphi code cannot link in C++ .obj files and seamlessly retain the class structure. Obj's with global procs are fine for Delphi, but the C++ class type system is a superset of the Delphi class type system. Also, the Delphi RTL is instrumented so that the C++ RTL can take over some core operations, but the C++ RTL isn't set up to defer those same operations to the Delphi RTL when the roles are reversed. So, your best bet is to build a BCB application that links in or links to Delphi code." -- Jeff Overcash (TeamB) (Please do not email me directly unless asked. Thank You) Your friends will know you better in the first minute you meet than your acquaintances will know you in a thousand years. (R Bach) Back to top Roberto Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 5:57 pm    Post subject: Re: to Danny Thorpe Quote: Regarding my friend Roby: We are actually good friends, are we not Roby? 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