BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Upgrade Path Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message LarryJ Guest Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 1:43 pm    Post subject: Upgrade Path Like everyone else I have been reading about the future of BCB on the newsgroup. I am really not sure what it means to include C++ Builder in the next release of the Delphi IDE. Can someone explain what this will mean to the end user currently using BCB6.0. For example is Delphi going to become a hybrid program supporting C++ and Delphi languages? Will we need to start writing code in Delphi rather than C++? Thanks Larry Johnson. Back to top Alisdair Meredith [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 2:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path LarryJ wrote: Quote: Like everyone else I have been reading about the future of BCB on the newsgroup. I am really not sure what it means to include C++ Builder in the next release of the Delphi IDE. Can someone explain what this will mean to the end user currently using BCB6.0. For example is Delphi going to become a hybrid program supporting C++ and Delphi languages? Will we need to start writing code in Delphi rather than C++? Delphi is the name of 2 things at Borland. It is the name of the language used to implement the VCL, an evolution of Turbo Pascal. It is also the name of an IDE, that currently supports C# and the Delphi language with full RAD support, and VB.NET without the RAD. What I understand is planned is for the C++ langauge to become another language supported in this IDE. It will have access to the VCL libraries, like it does today. What is not yet clear is whether it will be 'native' VCL using the Borland extensions we all know, VCL.NET using something like the MS C++/CLI binding, both(!) or something else again! For reference, C# is only supported in .NET mode (the language pretty much requires this) and Delphi supports both .NET and native code with slightly different versions of the language. So no, you are not going to suddenly start writing Delphi code, but yes, knowing Delphi language will still be useful for reading the VCL source, just as today. AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top LarryJ Guest Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 4:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Thanks, that information helps. "Alisdair Meredith [TeamB]" <alisdair.NO.SPAM.PLEASE.meredith (AT) uk (DOT) renaultf1.com> wrote Quote: AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Fri Dec 17, 2004 6:35 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path "LarryJ" <LarryJ33 (AT) ev1 (DOT) net> wrote Quote: For example is Delphi going to become a hybrid program supporting C++ and Delphi languages? Yes. It already supports the Delphi and C# languages. C++ is simply being added to the list. Quote: Will we need to start writing code in Delphi rather than C++? No. Current C++ code will be compilable under the new IDE. Gambit Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 1:12 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path If Borland supported only .NET and not Win32 in the C++ personality of BDS then I think I'd go outside and throw up. Just reading this paragraph gave me a sinking feeling. You can't possibly think they'd seriously consider doing this, do you? Alisdair Meredith [TeamB] wrote: Quote: What is not yet clear is whether it will be 'native' VCL using the Borland extensions we all know, VCL.NET using something like the MS C++/CLI binding, both(!) or something else again! Back to top Will DeWitt Jr. Guest Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 3:27 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Randall Parker wrote: Quote: If Borland supported only .NET and not Win32 in the C++ personality of BDS then I think I'd go outside and throw up. Just reading this paragraph gave me a sinking feeling. You can't possibly think they'd seriously consider doing this, do you? No, I'm fairly certain it'll be the Win32 version that makes it into the C++ personality. I don't see Borland writing a .NET C++ compiler from scratch at this point (or, more sensibly, an AMD64 C++ compiler). Will -- Want a 64-bit Delphi compiler for AMD64 / IA-32e? Vote here-- http://qc.borland.com/wc/wc.exe/details?reportid=7324 Back to top Russell Hind Guest Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 11:04 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Will DeWitt Jr. wrote: Quote: No, I'm fairly certain it'll be the Win32 version that makes it into the C++ personality. I don't see Borland writing a .NET C++ compiler from scratch at this point (or, more sensibly, an AMD64 C++ compiler). It could be both. They could licence microsoft's compiler as they have done with C#. That would help with standards compliance too, but only for non-VCLWin32 projects (standard C++ and .Net projects only I would guess) Cheers Russell Back to top Alisdair Meredith Guest Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 8:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Randall Parker wrote: Quote: If Borland supported only .NET and not Win32 in the C++ personality of BDS then I think I'd go outside and throw up. Just reading this paragraph gave me a sinking feeling. You can't possibly think they'd seriously consider doing this, do you? While I don't expect it, it is certainly possible. I can certainly imagine Borland wanting to support C++ as a .NET personality as well as native. And rather than implementing the C++/CLI binding themselves, I can imagine they would prefer to license an implementation from someone who has already done all the hard work, especially if that compiler traditionally ships for free (minus optimizer and libraries) as part of the .NET SDK. This is pretty much the route they took with C#. Now imagine explaining to the Win32 customers that although we have licensed a far more compliant compiler for .NET, you must live with BCC32 5.6x as only it supports the Delphi extensions. That might not go down too well, just as pulling native support entirely would not go down well. And I doubt there are sufficient resources to do everything else integrating BCB into BDS to also raise compiler conformance to VC++ levels. It took MS a few years to achieve that, and I hope we can agree MS had rather more resources to throw at the problem (never mind recruiting Herb Sutter and others) In that frame of mind, I can imagine The Management pulling the native plug. It will be quite enough work just to retrieve Delphi compatibility with and language features added for 7 and 9, never mind what is worked on for 10. If all we are likely to do is complain (it is not enough!) why do the work at all, and redirect resources to first class .NET support? I hope it does not happen, I have not heard any more of their plans than you, but I can imagine worst case scenarios that might appeal to managers rather than developers! I can also imagine scenarios that appeal to both, so you can imagine which I am hoping for ;¬) AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Sat Dec 18, 2004 9:05 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path "Alisdair Meredith" <alisdair.meredith@no-spam-splease (AT) uk (DOT) renaultf1.com> wrote Quote: I hope it does not happen, I have not heard any more of their plans than you, but I can imagine worst case scenarios that might appeal to managers rather than developers! I can also imagine scenarios that appeal to both, so you can imagine which I am hoping for ;¬) It's certainly possible that they'll just stick the current BCB6 into Delphi. I can't imagine even management geeks thinking that's a good idea though<g> Back to top BigStew Guest Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 12:01 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Well, Borland *nearly* shipped an EDG based compiler with CBX1 (oops, I just said the CBX word<g>). Perhaps Borland will do this again, when EDG have implemented CLI in their latest compiler front end? Stewart "Will DeWitt Jr." <edge (AT) NOSPAM (DOT) icehouse.net> wrote Quote: I don't see Borland writing a .NET C++ compiler from scratch at this point Back to top Alisdair Meredith Guest Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 9:15 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Duane Hebert wrote: Quote: It's certainly possible that they'll just stick the current BCB6 into Delphi. I can't imagine even management geeks thinking that's a good idea though I'm not even sure it is possible, given the Delphi and VCL advances since BCB6. Just catching back up with Delphi will take some effort. If we assume Delph2006 as the likely delivery you are looking at catching up with 3 VCL and language versions, and that discounts any work done during the Delphi 8 cycle. It also discounts any work done on BCB in the meantime, such as might produce the version demoed at Borcon ;?) AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top Roddy Pratt Guest Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 11:41 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path "Randall Parker" <STOPtechiepundit (AT) EVILfuturePOXpunditSPAM (DOT) com> wrote in message news:41c3844c (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: If Borland supported only .NET and not Win32 in the C++ personality of BDS then I think I'd go outside and throw up. Just reading this paragraph gave me a sinking feeling. You can't possibly think they'd seriously consider doing this, do you? The BDNtv sneak preview shows a 'cpu view' of a breakpointed app. I guess that means it's Win32 at this point anyway... - Roddy Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 1:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path "Alisdair Meredith" <alisdair.meredith@no-spam-splease (AT) uk (DOT) renaultf1.com> wrote Quote: I'm not even sure it is possible, given the Delphi and VCL advances since BCB6. Just catching back up with Delphi will take some effort. If we assume Delph2006 as the likely delivery you are looking at catching up with 3 VCL and language versions, and that discounts any work done during the Delphi 8 cycle. Hopefully not. Quote: It also discounts any work done on BCB in the meantime, such as might produce the version demoed at Borcon ;?) I thought BCB was dead at that point. The version at Borcon couldn't have been produced with the present compiler? Back to top Hendrik Schober Guest Posted: Sun Dec 19, 2004 7:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Alisdair Meredith <alisdair.meredith@no-spam-splease (AT) uk (DOT) renaultf1.com> wrote: Quote: [...] I can imagine they would prefer to license an implementation from someone who has already done all the hard work, especially if that compiler traditionally ships for free (minus optimizer and libraries) as part of the .NET SDK. [...] IIRC, there was a beta version of an EDG based compiler. And EDG is, AFAIK, adding C++/CLI bindings to their compiler. However, this speculation completely leaves open the question of VCL support. Quote: AlisdairM(TeamB) Schobi -- [email]SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de[/email] is never read I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be prefered to those thinking they've found it." Terry Pratchett Back to top John Kaster (Borland) Guest Posted: Mon Dec 20, 2004 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Upgrade Path Duane Hebert wrote: Quote: It's certainly possible that they'll just stick the current BCB6 into Delphi. No, it's not. That would make absolutely no sense. -- John Kaster http://blogs.borland.com/johnk Features and bugs: http://qc.borland.com Get source: http://cc.borland.com What's going on? http://calendar.borland.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next Page 1 of 3   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.