BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  using Emacs keympapping....          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> JBuilder IDE View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Flip Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:04 pm    Post subject: using Emacs keympapping.... What's the difference betweenthe CTRL-X and the Excape key? As far as I read, they are the same, but the CTRL-X seems to put JB in to another mode and stays there, sometimes? And some keys only work with the Escape and not with the CTRL-X. What do you prefer to use? CUA, Emacs or Visual Studio? Back to top Flip Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:10 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... I'm trying to issue the CTRL-x m for making the current file, but it's no working. Am I doing something wrong, or does the Emacs mapping not work? The old CUA CTRL-SHIFT-F9 still works, but that's not the Emacs one. Back to top Flip Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:12 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... And what key is the Meta key on the keyboard? I thought it was the Windows key, but when I do a Windows-M for moving back indentation, I minimize JB. PS I'm using JB9Ent with the 3rd patch. Back to top Lori M Olson (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:43 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Flip wrote: Quote: I'm trying to issue the CTRL-x m for making the current file, but it's no working. Am I doing something wrong, or does the Emacs mapping not work? The old CUA CTRL-SHIFT-F9 still works, but that's not the Emacs one. I have noted a similar problem. -- Regards, Lori Olson (TeamB) ------------ Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next question. Google Advanced Newsgroup Search http://www.google.ca/advanced_group_search Other Newsgroup Searches: http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic: http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html Back to top Lori M Olson (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:45 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Flip wrote: Quote: And what key is the Meta key on the keyboard? I thought it was the Windows key, but when I do a Windows-M for moving back indentation, I minimize JB. PS I'm using JB9Ent with the 3rd patch. Emacs existed on DOS and Windows long before the advent of the "Windows" key. The Meta key on Windows is "Esc". But keep in mind that we are still talking about JBuilder here, not Emacs. Some standard Emacs key strokes do nothing in JBuilder. -- Regards, Lori Olson (TeamB) ------------ Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next question. Google Advanced Newsgroup Search http://www.google.ca/advanced_group_search Other Newsgroup Searches: http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic: http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html Back to top Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 5:59 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Lori M Olson (TeamB) wrote: Quote: Emacs existed on DOS and Windows long before the advent of the "Windows" key. The Meta key on Windows is "Esc". As far as I know, the term "Meta key" originated with Symbolics Lisp machines which had Meta, Super, and Hyper keys. -- Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB) Back to top Flip Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Quote: As far as I know, the term "Meta key" originated with Symbolics Lisp Hence all the links I'm finding which talk about emacs for lisp developers?! :> I was wondering about that. When I tried the vi editor, I was finding all kinds of help for unix vi, and most of the keys were good in JB too. But the emacs one is different as Lori's already indicated in the previous email. Thanks for the heads up. Back to top Flip Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:31 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Lori and Gillmer, and anyone else? What do you use for your editor mapping? Do you use Emacs or CUA? What advantages are there one of the other? Is one better for movement in a file? Is one better for editing? Cutting'n'pasting? Thanks. Back to top Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 6:55 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Flip wrote: Quote: Lori and Gillmer, and anyone else? What do you use for your editor mapping? Do you use Emacs or CUA? What advantages are there one of the other? Is one better for movement in a file? Is one better for editing? Cutting'n'pasting? For a while I used emacs, but I use CUA now. I don't think there's any reason to use one over the other except whatever makes you feel more productive and happier. When I used emacs, I was doing a lot of Unix work, running Linux at home, etc. so the emacs bindings were more familiar and made JBuilder work more similarly to other programs I was using. Now I use CUA for the same reason. All other Windows programs use CUA, so I find it awkward to make the mental switch to emacs bindings when I use JBuilder and CUA for everything else. Asking somebody's favorite JBuilder keymap is like asking their favorite color. It may be interesting for the sake of discussion, but you wouldn't change your favorite color just because someone else likes it, and you shouldn't use a keymap just because someone else likes it either. Use whatever keymap is familiar enough that it lets you spend more time thinking about programming than keymaps. :-) -- Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB) Back to top Lori M Olson (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu May 13, 2004 7:50 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Flip wrote: Quote: Lori and Gillmer, and anyone else? What do you use for your editor mapping? Do you use Emacs or CUA? What advantages are there one of the other? Is one better for movement in a file? Is one better for editing? Cutting'n'pasting? Thanks. I tried using the Emacs keymapping for a while, when it first appeared. But there are just enough differences between JBuilder's Emacs key mapping and how things work in Emacs to trip me up on a regular basis. So, I went back to CUA, because then my fingers stopped getting confused. -- Regards, Lori Olson (TeamB) ------------ Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next question. Google Advanced Newsgroup Search http://www.google.ca/advanced_group_search Other Newsgroup Searches: http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic: http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html Back to top Hans-Bernhard Broeker Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... "Lori M Olson (TeamB)" <javadragon (AT) techie (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Flip wrote: And what key is the Meta key on the keyboard? I thought it was the Windows key, but when I do a Windows-M for moving back indentation, I minimize JB. PS I'm using JB9Ent with the 3rd patch. Emacs existed on DOS and Windows long before the advent of the "Windows" key. The Meta key on Windows is "Esc". Not really. Conventionally, on pretty much all PC keyboards since Emacs first appeared there, Meta has been on either of the 'Alt' keys. Both of them on US keyboards, the left one only on international ones (where the right Alt key is 'AltGr' and needed to generate special characters, e.g. AltGr-9 to get a ']', on German ones). ESC can't be "Meta" because it's not a modifier key, i.e. the keyboard driver doesn't usually recognize <ESC-a> as a shifted or modified alternative of <a>. But since <Alt-key> combos are translated into characters with their MSB set, and thus were unreliable in remote sessions --- "8-bit transparency" was hard to guarantee. So as a fallback <ESC> <Key> will be recognized as <M-Key>. Since MS added their "Windows keys", it's been a customary modification to map those to Meta, leaving Alt for Elisp packages that might actually know how to use it --- I'm not aware of any that do, though. But for that to work on actual Windows, you have to forbid Windows itself to treat those keys as global hotkeys while the app needing them has the keyboard focus. -- Hans-Bernhard Broeker (broeker (AT) physik (DOT) rwth-aachen.de) Even if all the snow were burnt, ashes would remain. Back to top Lori M Olson (TeamB) Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 4:29 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Hans-Bernhard Broeker wrote: Quote: "Lori M Olson (TeamB)" <javadragon (AT) techie (DOT) com> wrote: ESC can't be "Meta" because it's not a modifier key, i.e. the keyboard driver doesn't usually recognize <ESC-a> as a shifted or modified alternative of <a>. Beg to differ, since I use Gnu Emacs on Windows ALL THE TIME, and "Esc" IS the "Meta" key. Unless, of course, you have modified the defaults. -- Regards, Lori Olson (TeamB) ------------ Save yourself, and everyone else, some time and search the newsgroups and the FAQ-O-Matic before posting your next question. Google Advanced Newsgroup Search http://www.google.ca/advanced_group_search Other Newsgroup Searches: http://www.borland.com/newsgroups/ngsearch.html Joi Ellis's FAQ-O-Matic: http://www.visi.com/~gyles19/fom-serve/cache/1.html Back to top Valentino Kyriakides Guest Posted: Fri May 14, 2004 10:45 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... I second Gillmer's comments! "Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB)" <spam (AT) gillmerderge (DOT) com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag news:40a3c4a4$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Flip wrote: Lori and Gillmer, and anyone else? What do you use for your editor mapping? Do you use Emacs or CUA? What advantages are there one of the other? Is one better for movement in a file? Is one better for editing? Cutting'n'pasting? For a while I used emacs, but I use CUA now. I don't think there's any reason to use one over the other except whatever makes you feel more productive and happier. When I used emacs, I was doing a lot of Unix work, running Linux at home, etc. so the emacs bindings were more familiar and made JBuilder work more similarly to other programs I was using. Now I use CUA for the same reason. All other Windows programs use CUA, so I find it awkward to make the mental switch to emacs bindings when I use JBuilder and CUA for everything else. Asking somebody's favorite JBuilder keymap is like asking their favorite color. It may be interesting for the sake of discussion, but you wouldn't change your favorite color just because someone else likes it, and you shouldn't use a keymap just because someone else likes it either. Use whatever keymap is familiar enough that it lets you spend more time thinking about programming than keymaps. :-) -- Gillmer J. Derge (TeamB) Back to top Flip Guest Posted: Mon May 17, 2004 2:05 pm    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... Quote: wouldn't change your favorite color just because someone else likes it, True. I was just seeing if there was something you guys liked about other key mappings and then weigh that with the objectives (coding faster). But like you say, it's all a personal preference. PS My favourite colour is.... Sorry, couldn't resist, had to throw in some humour. :> Back to top Tor Iver Wilhelmsen Guest Posted: Tue May 18, 2004 6:11 am    Post subject: Re: using Emacs keympapping.... "Lori M Olson (TeamB)" <javadragon (AT) techie (DOT) com> writes: Quote: Beg to differ, since I use Gnu Emacs on Windows ALL THE TIME, and "Esc" IS the "Meta" key. No, ESC is a substitute meant for keyboards/terminals without ALT/META. You will notice that it doesn't behave in the same way, e.g. you press ESC + key in two operations, not holding ESC down like a modifier key. 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