BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Using Freeware Libraries          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message John Borchers Guest Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 4:24 pm    Post subject: Using Freeware Libraries All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? JB Back to top Chris Uzdavinis (TeamB) Guest Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries "John Borchers" <jborchers (AT) notmail (DOT) com> writes: Quote: All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? I think your question is unanswerable. But a few points: Not all free libraries are licensed under the GPL. Retail products can use GPL-licensed software, if they're willing to distribute their code. Violations of the GPL, when caught, can be expensive. It's not freeware in the sense of public domain. It's protected under copyright law, with the same degree of protection as any closed-source code. Getting caught for violating copyright law is not a minor offense, and consequently, almost every guilty party who has been caught and pressed on the issue has settled out of court. The general understanding why people don't want to go to court when caught violating the GPL is that they know they'll lose. So yes, it's a stupid gamble to violate the license agreement. Use the code only under the conditions of the license, or don't use the GPL'd code. It's pretty simple. -- Chris (TeamB); Back to top Ed Mulroy [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries Freeware is good. In general GNU things are GPL licensed. Do not confuse GPL with freeware. The GPL license and especially the descriptions of it you see around are worded to make it appear that it is allowed to be used for commercial products. However if you intend to do that you should go back and read what restrictions and requirements the license demands. In general it is not a viable option for commercial products. Some companies offer the same software under both the GPL and under their own license so you can arrange to use it under the company's license. .. Ed Quote: John Borchers wrote in message news:42288bc9$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? Back to top Bruce Salzman Guest Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries Quote: Retail products can use GPL-licensed software, if they're willing to distribute their code. My understanding is that if you use the GPL'd software without modification, you don't have to disclose your own code. Once you modify it, you are opting in to the open-source aspects of the project. -- Bruce Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 1:20 am    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries John, How many GPL libraries are there? I come across useful neat libraries under LGPL and even less restrictive licenses. At least for my work I have not come across GPL libraries that I have even wanted to use in my commercial development. John Borchers wrote: Quote: All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? JB Back to top Micha Nelissen Guest Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 11:24:43 -0500 "John Borchers" <jborchers (AT) notmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? No, yes . I think there have been quite some companies taking the "gamble"... iptables/netfilter team for instance has identified some companies using their code without distributing modified source, and engaged them with success. Micha Back to top OBones Guest Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:03 am    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries Bruce Salzman wrote: Quote: Retail products can use GPL-licensed software, if they're willing to distribute their code. My understanding is that if you use the GPL'd software without modification, you don't have to disclose your own code. Once you modify it, you are opting in to the open-source aspects of the project. Nope, the mere fact of linking in GPL'd code requires you to publish the code using it under GPL. Back to top Bruce Salzman Guest Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries Quote: My understanding is that if you use the GPL'd software without modification, you don't have to disclose your own code. Once you modify it, you are opting in to the open-source aspects of the project. Nope, the mere fact of linking in GPL'd code requires you to publish the code using it under GPL. Yeah, you're right I was thinking of the Mozilla Public License which talks about Modifications. -- Bruce Back to top Micha Nelissen Guest Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 10:03:49 +0100 OBones <obones_gfe_ (AT) _gt_altern (DOT) org> wrote: Quote: Nope, the mere fact of linking in GPL'd code requires you to publish the code using it under GPL. Actually, that is not entirely true: you only need to provide sources to people to whom you distribute the binary. Micha Back to top Graeme Prentice Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:24 am    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 13:29:25 +0100, Micha Nelissen wrote: Quote: On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 10:03:49 +0100 OBones <obones_gfe_ (AT) _gt_altern (DOT) org> wrote: Nope, the mere fact of linking in GPL'd code requires you to publish the code using it under GPL. Actually, that is not entirely true: you only need to provide sources to people to whom you distribute the binary. Micha Are you allowed to restrict the rights of those people to distribute the source? Graeme Back to top Peter Agricola Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries "Graeme Prentice" wrote: Quote: Nope, the mere fact of linking in GPL'd code requires you to publish the code using it under GPL. Actually, that is not entirely true: you only need to provide sources to people to whom you distribute the binary. Are you allowed to restrict the rights of those people to distribute the source? No. But neither are those people obligated to redistribute the binary. If they do however they have to make the source available too. This is an important aspect of the licence. For in-house applications you can freely use GPL'd source. Be aware of complications when the company is (partially) sold. But I think when using GPL'd source, or any other open source software, it is wise to give the modifications back to the community. The community will improve the quality of your code for free . Peter Back to top John Borchers Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 12:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries All, Thanks for the many answers. We decided in the beginning not to use the GPL source in the project. We would have contacted the original creators and tried to aquire an exception to the license for commercial use. The GPL source had limitations (not license but operation) so we took a step back, checked patents and spun our own. The problem this causes us is we are not directly compatible. We'll find out whether or not it works out for us in the future. I raised the question after reading the GPL license and seeing a single competitior product using the source and libraries. Even the specification on this particular file format is copyrighted and part of the GPL. Either that company got a license arrangement or is taking the gamble. Regards, John Borchers "John Borchers" <jborchers (AT) notmail (DOT) com> wrote Quote: All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? JB Back to top Marian Krivos Guest Posted: Mon Mar 07, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Using Freeware Libraries John Borchers wrote: Quote: All, Anyone know how many software companies get away with using freeware source / components in their retail product when the GNU freeware license clearly prohibits this? Are they just gambling? JB Most of free libraries are under LGPL 2 - it is not that restrictive. 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