BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ?          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Richard Luteijn Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:03 am    Post subject: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Hi there, I've tried (on several occasions) to make use of the TActionManager and TActionToolbar components instead of the trusty old TActionList and TToolbar. Even in a brand new application and while working with the TActionToolbar component (adding actions, buttons, etc.)the IDE crashes, complains or the buttons are not drawn correctly, etc. I'm a little vague here about a specific error but to me it's clear something doesn't work right. Are these components (specifically the TActionToolbar ), like a few other BCB components, not reliable and is it better to look for a third party component ? Using the help gets me nowhere. Using BCB 6 (Uninstalled 2006 after 1 week) on XP. Thanks, Richard Back to top JD Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? "Richard Luteijn" <richardluteijn (AT) yahoo (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Hi there, I've tried (on several occasions) to make use of the TActionManager and TActionToolbar components instead of the trusty old TActionList and TToolbar. Yuk (on both counts). See below. Quote: Even in a brand new application and while working with the TActionToolbar component (adding actions, buttons, etc.)the IDE crashes, complains or the buttons are not drawn correctly, etc. I'm a little vague here about a specific error but to me it's clear something doesn't work right. When ever I have seen this (BCB 5 & 6), ultimately, it's been determined as a result of my project's poor memory management that buggered up the IDE/compiler. Quote: Are these components (specifically the TActionToolbar ), Questions about bugs or possible bugs, should be directed to QC. If you had searched QC first, you'd have found that there is nothing reported that even remotely resemblems what you have observed which should lead you to look more closely at you code. Quote: like a few other BCB components, not reliable The VCL has been around for quite a while. To suggest that Borland publishes "unreliable" VCL objects would be a mistake. However, I will say that not all VCL objects are 'perfect'. Quote: and is it better to look for a third party component ? This is the 'See Below' part (from above). I would suggest to you that using a TActionList is a poor excuse for programming. IOW, I find that a TActionList does nothing other that add a layer between the programmer and the code. For example, if the OnButton1Click event is defined to reset the file pointer to the first record and you want that same action peformed by a menu click, the smart thing is to use the IDE's Object Inspector to assign the same event to both OnClick events. Quote: Using the help gets me nowhere. Don't give up. The help (once I undestood it) and the source taught me all I know (not counting my spakings by Gambit <g>). Quote: Using BCB 6 (Uninstalled 2006 after 1 week) on XP. I think that it's a mistake that you are not using BCB10 when it's available to you. ~ JD Back to top Richard Luteijn Guest Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Thanks JD, for your comments. I'm afraid you've opened up a can of worms. "JD" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message news:43f03a19$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: When ever I have seen this (BCB 5 & 6), ultimately, it's been determined as a result of my project's poor memory management that buggered up the IDE/compiler. The app has no code. I'm just playing with these components (and a Coolbar). I agree that most (say 99.9%) problems are user code. However, after working with version 6 for 3-4 years, i can safely say that the IDE is the worst software i have ever used, unless you look at it as another 'notepad'. I expect a little more than just 'Linker error: Fatal Access Violation'. Or an AV when i simply close a project (so that using Ctrl+Alt+Del is the only way out). For very small projects it works ok however. Quote: Questions about bugs or possible bugs, should be directed to QC. Sure, how much will Borland pay me to locate their bugs ? I have in the past posted some (clearly reproducible) bugs. Waisting some valuable time to no avail. If you had searched QC first, you'd have found that there Quote: is nothing reported that even remotely resemblems what you have observed which should lead you to look more closely at you code. Most programmers have better things to do than to report to a black hole. If one of my customers tells me about a problem i try to fix it.... not let him vote for it. Quote: The VCL has been around for quite a while. To suggest that Borland publishes "unreliable" VCL objects would be a mistake. However, I will say that not all VCL objects are 'perfect'. And yet i've been 'strongly' advised by TeamB to not use some components. Quote: Don't give up. The help (once I undestood it) and the source taught me all I know (not counting my spakings by Gambit <g>). It's probably TeamB that taught you. Without them, BCB would no longer exist. Quote: Using BCB 6 (Uninstalled 2006 after 1 week) on XP. I think that it's a mistake that you are not using BCB10 when it's available to you. I've used Borland since TurboC. BCB5 was very good. Version 6 not so much. Version 10 crashes when no project is open and you open the project options. A bad sign. Building existing (some third party) components crashes the IDE. Restart and re-build and all works well. A bad sign. The help... say no more. A migration guide... I guess since Borland figured there are no more C++ users around they didn't have to do this. I'm sorry, i've had it with Borland. Not using version 10 is not a loss of US$400 + the cost for MS Visual Studio. It's a tremendous leap forward, with real support, a working help with lots of sample code, the latest components, etc. etc. I might re-install version 10 after update 2 is released (but looking at the past, this might not ever happen). Richard Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Richard Luteijn wrote: Quote: The app has no code. I'm just playing with these components (and a Coolbar). I agree that most (say 99.9%) problems are user code. However, after working with version 6 for 3-4 years, i can safely say that the IDE is the worst software i have ever used, unless you look at it as another 'notepad'. I expect a little more than just 'Linker error: Fatal Access Violation'. Or an AV when i simply close a project (so that using Ctrl+Alt+Del is the only way out). For very small projects it works ok however. Call me lucky, but I've been with Borland BCB since version 1, and I've been intelligent enough *not* to jump on any bandwagon full of features. Consequently, I went from version 1 to version 3 to version 5 SP1, and that is where I am today. All stable and correct. I intelligently miss buying rubbish. After a new version comes out, I wait a few months to see how well it beds in. If it doesn't or there is too much woe and workrounds, I avoid upgrading, until something provably stable materialises. Unfortunately, in BCB's case, nothing stable has appeared yet, since version 5 SP1. BDS2006 seems to have a lot of teething troubles, but, as they expand the remit of the product, the programmers' responsibilities increased to breaking point, so it doesn't surprise me. Building a C++ compiler onto a Delphi IDE only makes things even more complicated for Borland's programming team. My advice is not to be so far-reaching in attempted coverage, Borland, and stick to what you know best - single language compiler technologies. Quote: Questions about bugs or possible bugs, should be directed to QC. Most programmers have better things to do than to report to a black hole. If one of my customers tells me about a problem i try to fix it.... not let him vote for it. Hear, hear! I fully agree with this sentiment. I must be very rare - a technical support person with intimate hands-on programming experience, and caring about the client's end result, rather than just caring about my pay and maintaining a miserable and unapproachable appearance (IT ops - you know who you are!). QC is a joke. Quote: I think that it's a mistake that you are not using BCB10 when it's available to you. I've used Borland since TurboC. BCB5 was very good. Version 6 not so much. Version 10 crashes when no project is open and you open the project options. A bad sign. Building existing (some third party) components crashes the IDE. Restart and re-build and all works well. A bad sign. The help... say no more. A migration guide... I guess since Borland figured there are no more C++ users around they didn't have to do this. The amount of effort us programmers went to, in order to get Borland to reconsider ditching the C++ personality of their Delphi flagship, now seems unwarranted. How on earth could they have let a buggy beast like that out of the door, let alone onto the marketplace? There's only one answer - the marketing department - the least technically proficient department in any organisation - Jeez! Quote: I'm sorry, i've had it with Borland. Not using version 10 is not a loss of US$400 + the cost for MS Visual Studio. It's a tremendous leap forward, with real support, a working help with lots of sample code, the latest components, etc. etc. Please don't make me laugh - MS VC++ and Studio are a bunch of over-hyped, over-complicated rubbish (IMHO). Apps that take a day or 2 with BCB, take a week or 2 with VC++. M$ may have the latest components, but their design architecture is always weak, probably because too many cooks are spoiling the broth. Perhaps that is what is happening to Borland's compiler development teams now - they're too big! -- Mark Jacobs http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Pete Fraser wrote: Quote: I assume that you haven't got BDS 2006 because while there are a few 'strange problems' it has nothing like the instability of BCB6. I am working much more productively than BCB6 and really love it. It is a very nice IDE to work with and the number of QC reports that are being fixed shows that they are treating it with respect. Once the trial is out, you will be able to try it to. (not long to go hopefully) I have based my statements on lots of other reports about BDS 2006, and some of those bugs were to do with form initialisation not working properly, a problem that versions 5 and 6 of BCB never had. Introducing new bugs to a product and then shipping it out of the door, is a very naughty thing to do, IMO. I am sure the product ( when it is fixed *properly* ) will work better, and have more to offer, than any stable, reliable old version 5 of BCB. Until then, I will sit tight. Rave all you like, but the product is unmarketable in its current state, and I am disgusted with Borland's marketing department in even letting this one out, especially after the fiasco of BCB6. -- Mark Jacobs http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 1:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Well Mark, I assume that you haven't got BDS 2006 because while there are a few 'strange problems' it has nothing like the instability of BCB6. I am working much more productively than BCB6 and really love it. It is a very nice IDE to work with and the number of QC reports that are being fixed shows that they are treating it with respect. Once the trial is out, you will be able to try it to. (not long to go hopefully) Rgds Pete "Mark Jacobs" <markj (AT) critical (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:43f1c15c (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: The amount of effort us programmers went to, in order to get Borland to reconsider ditching the C++ personality of their Delphi flagship, now seems unwarranted. How on earth could they have let a buggy beast like that out of the door, let alone onto the marketplace? There's only one answer - the marketing department - the least technically proficient department in any organisation - Jeez! Back to top Pete Fraser Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Hi Mark, Sorry if you thought I was 'Raving' I'm rather surprised with this report. I haven't seen a problem with Form initialisation, do you have a QC report that explains it or can you explain it more? If so we should be able to get this fixed for update 2. Rgds Pete "Mark Jacobs" <markj (AT) critical (DOT) co.uk> wrote in message news:43f1cfc8$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Pete Fraser wrote: snip I have based my statements on lots of other reports about BDS 2006, and some of those bugs were to do with form initialisation not working properly, a problem that versions 5 and 6 of BCB never had. Introducing new bugs to a product and then shipping it out of the door, is a very naughty thing to do, IMO. I am sure the product ( when it is fixed *properly* ) will work better, and have more to offer, than any stable, reliable old version 5 of BCB. Until then, I will sit tight. Rave all you like, but the product is unmarketable in its current state, and I am disgusted with Borland's marketing department in even letting this one out, especially after the fiasco of BCB6. Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 3:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Using (or avoiding) TActionManager and TActionToolbar ? Pete Fraser wrote: Quote: Sorry if you thought I was 'Raving' I'm rather surprised with this report. I haven't seen a problem with Form initialisation, do you have a QC report that explains it or can you explain it more? If so we should be able to get this fixed for update 2. The bug was reported by me to these newsgroups late August 2005. I could not post it to QC as QC's interface and web design did not easily allow me to. I ended up going round in circles. Here is what was reported :- "It'll happen with any popup form that's owned by any window that's not the application window. Within TCustomForm.Destroy they call Application.RemovePopupForm(Self) at the top of the method. Later they call DestroyWindowHandle, which internally ends up calling WM_DESTROY which calls Application.AddPopupForm as the form is destroyed. Now they're running with a dead window handle in their application array - not just window, pardon me... a dead Form in their array." -- Mark Jacobs http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.