BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  VC# .NET and BCB VCL Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message fwang11 Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 5:09 am    Post subject: VC# .NET and BCB VCL With VC# .NET getting popular, BCB VCL will be out in a few years. Just like VC++ MFC vs BC++ OWL. Any chance for BCB VCL? Back to top Atmapuri Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:46 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL Hi! Quote: With VC# .NET getting popular, BCB VCL will be out in a few years. Just like VC++ MFC vs BC++ OWL. Any chance for BCB VCL? You are talking about different platforms here. VC#.NET only works in managed code. BCB VCL is unmanaged code. And unmanaged C++ is not going away by far... Best Regards! Atmapuri Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:29 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL "fwang11" <fwang11 (AT) pub3 (DOT) fz.fj> wrote Quote: With VC# .NET getting popular, BCB VCL will be out in a few years. Highly unlikely. .NET may be gaining momentum, but Win32 will be around for a LONG time to come, and Borland has already committed to continuing support for Win32 VCL for a LONG time. Quote: Any chance for BCB VCL? The VCL has already been successfully ported to .NET. VCL.NET has been available in Delphi for awhile now, and can be used from any .NET environment, including VB.NET and C#. When Microsoft finishes standardizing C++ for .NET, then Borland can bring VCL.NET into the C++ compiler. In the meantime, VCL.NET can be developed for today in Delphi and C#. BDS brings all three languages into the same development IDE. Gambit Back to top fwang11 Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 7:45 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL "Remy Lebeau (TeamB)" <no.spam (AT) no (DOT) spam.com> wrote: Quote: "fwang11" <fwang11 (AT) pub3 (DOT) fz.fj> wrote in message news:43b37dae$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... With VC# .NET getting popular, BCB VCL will be out in a few years. Highly unlikely. .NET may be gaining momentum, but Win32 will be around for a LONG time to come, and Borland has already committed to continuing support for Win32 VCL for a LONG time. Win32 will be around. But for Win32 development, most will use VC++. BCB and DELPHI are mostly used in enterprise network RAD programming such as MIS ERP etc. With VC# .NET dominate the enterprise network RAD programming, there will be a hard time for BCB VCL. Quote: Any chance for BCB VCL? The VCL has already been successfully ported to .NET. VCL.NET has been available in Delphi for awhile now, and can be used from any .NET environment, including VB.NET and C#. When Microsoft finishes standardizing C++ for .NET, then Borland can bring VCL.NET into the C++ compiler. In the meantime, VCL.NET can be developed for today in Delphi and C#. BDS brings all three languages into the same development IDE. VCL on top of .NET is not a good thing. Old programmers may use VCL on .NET. But new programmers are not going to learn VCL on top of .NET. So, VCL will be evntually phased out. Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:01 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL "fwang11" <fwang11 (AT) pub3 (DOT) fz.fj> wrote Quote: Win32 will be around. But for Win32 development, most will use VC++. Says who? VCL for Win32 isn't going away anytime soon. Quote: BCB and DELPHI are mostly used in enterprise network RAD programming such as MIS ERP etc. Says who? I know a lot of mid-level and small business people who use Borland RAD tools, because of its ease of use and quick development time. Quote: VCL on top of .NET is not a good thing. Why do you say that? VCL is not just on top of .NET. It is integrated into ..NET. Much of the VCL's core functionality was re-written to natively use and derive from .NET data types directly. They are not mere wrappers. And Delphi is a first-class citizen in .NET, at the same level as VB.NET and C#. Quote: Old programmers may use VCL on .NET. But new programmers are not going to learn VCL on top of .NET. Why not? There is VERY little change needed in people's source code in order to migrate from Win32 to .NET. The VCL's platform changes are at the lowest levels so that higher-level code is virtual identical in both platforms. Simply do a recompile of the existing code (almost entirely) as-is, and voila - instant migration. Quote: So, VCL will be evntually phased out. I highly doubt that. Borland has invested a lot of time and effort into making sure that VCL isn't going away anytime soon, and will continue to be a competive choice for a long time. Gambit Back to top Atmapuri Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:37 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL Hi! Quote: VCL on top of .NET is not a good thing. Old programmers may use VCL on .NET. But new programmers are not going to learn VCL on top of .NET. So, VCL will be evntually phased out. New programmers will use VB6, than drop everything and move to Winfroms, then drop everything and move to Avalon, then drop everything and move to.... VCL is there all the time. So, if you want to be "new" and waste time... Best Regards! Atmapuri Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL At 06:09:50, 29.12.2005, fwang11 wrote: Quote: With VC# .NET getting popular, BCB VCL will be out in a few years. Just like VC++ MFC vs BC++ OWL. Any chance for BCB VCL? I don't think so. There is a VCL.NET, and it is IMO far better than the current (1.1) WinForms framework. Of course this may change, when .NET gets a better framework, using XAML, but I'm sure the VCL for .NET can be adopted to that as well. But Win32 is not dead either. The VCL is still the best framework for that platform (IMO). -- Rudy.Velthuis {TeamB} http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de/ "Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain - and most fools do." -- Dale Carnegie Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:36 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL At 08:45:44, 29.12.2005, fwang11 wrote: Quote: Win32 will be around. But for Win32 development, most will use VC++. Sure, as has been the case for the last many years. And still, the VCL has not disappeared, it has in fact grown, and neither have Delphi or BCB (well, BCB almost, but not the VCL <g>) Borland do not need to be the market leaders to continue developing the VCL, as we have seen in Delphi since day 1, and in BCB since a few years after that. -- Rudy.Velthuis {TeamB} http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de/ "I still live." - Daniel Webster, dying words Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL At 10:01:52, 29.12.2005, Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: "fwang11" <fwang11 (AT) pub3 (DOT) fz.fj> wrote in message news:43b3a238$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Win32 will be around. But for Win32 development, most will use VC++. Says who? VCL for Win32 isn't going away anytime soon. BCB and DELPHI are mostly used in enterprise network RAD programming such as MIS ERP etc. Says who? I know a lot of mid-level and small business people who use Borland RAD tools, because of its ease of use and quick development time. Esepcially here in Europe, Borland tools are very popular. -- Rudy.Velthuis {TeamB} http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de/ "Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats." -- Henry Louis Mencken (1880-1956) Back to top Michael McCulloch Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:33:44 +0100, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <velthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: ... There is a VCL.NET, and it is IMO far better than the current (1.1) WinForms framework. Of course this may change, when .NET gets a better framework, using XAML, but I'm sure the VCL for .NET can be adopted to that as well. My understanding of XAML is it is just another way to save GUI descriptions in code. In itself it offers no improved richness as far as I can tell. Any library provided for it in an initial release will be scant relative to the VCL and all the variety of components already available. XAML = big yawn. You can save your GUI layout in XML-like source... Big whoop. I suppose it is supposed to be cool because it uses lots of the latest buzzwords? Apple's developer tools (e.g. InterfaceBuilder) have been doing that for years. Check out .nib files -- they are XML-like structures inside. --- Michael McCulloch Back to top Andreas Hausladen Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:14 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL Michael McCulloch wrote: Quote: Apple's developer tools (e.g. InterfaceBuilder) have been doing that for years. And Delphi is doing this since Delphi 1. With the only exception that it does not use XML. -- Regards, Andreas Hausladen Back to top Michael McCulloch Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:56 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:14:31 +0100, "Andreas Hausladen" <AndreasDOTHausladen (AT) gNOMAILmx (DOT) de> wrote: Quote: Michael McCulloch wrote: Apple's developer tools (e.g. InterfaceBuilder) have been doing that for years. And Delphi is doing this since Delphi 1. With the only exception that it does not use XML. And Nextstep was doing it (non-XML) in 1989. The point here is about the XML structure. Perhaps someone can inform me as to why saving the GUI layout file in XML form vs. streamed objects is inherently superior. --- Michael McCulloch Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL At 17:51:23, 29.12.2005, Michael McCulloch wrote: Quote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 13:33:44 +0100, "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" [email]velthuis (AT) gmail (DOT) com[/email]> wrote: ... There is a VCL.NET, and it is IMO far better than the current (1.1) WinForms framework. Of course this may change, when .NET gets a better framework, using XAML, but I'm sure the VCL for .NET can be adopted to that as well. My understanding of XAML is it is just another way to save GUI descriptions in code. Dunno. I meant Avalon, actually, and that looks quite OK. -- Rudy.Velthuis {TeamB} http://velthuis.homepage.t-online.de/ "You know, somebody actually complimented me on my driving today. They left a little note on the windscreen, it said 'Parking Fine.'" -- Tommy Cooper Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 9:41 pm    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL "Michael McCulloch" <michael (AT) nospam (DOT) invalid.com> wrote Quote: My understanding of XAML is it is just another way to save GUI descriptions in code. Think of XAML as Microsoft's version of Borland's DFM. XAML is used to instantiate Vista's UI controls and set their properties and events. Quote: In itself it offers no improved richness as far as I can tell. Any library provided for it in an initial release will be scant relative to the VCL and all the variety of components already available. My understanding is that XAML can instantiate any control the OS knows about, and there are a lot of built-in controls, particularly advanced controls for animation and special UI effects. Gambit Back to top Doychin Bondzhev Guest Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 9:44 am    Post subject: Re: VC# .NET and BCB VCL One point is XSLT. You can apply XSLT to this XML and have another look and feel of your GUI. Doychin Michael McCulloch wrote: Quote: On Thu, 29 Dec 2005 19:14:31 +0100, "Andreas Hausladen" [email]AndreasDOTHausladen (AT) gNOMAILmx (DOT) de[/email]> wrote: Michael McCulloch wrote: Apple's developer tools (e.g. InterfaceBuilder) have been doing that for years. And Delphi is doing this since Delphi 1. With the only exception that it does not use XML. And Nextstep was doing it (non-XML) in 1989. The point here is about the XML structure. Perhaps someone can inform me as to why saving the GUI layout file in XML form vs. streamed objects is inherently superior. --- Michael McCulloch Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.