BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  VCL component I wish someone wrote          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Thirdparty Tools (General) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message marek jedlinski Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:59 am    Post subject: VCL component I wish someone wrote An outline editor. I don't think one exists for Delphi, but please do tell if I'm wrong. A specialized control, a hybrid of a treeview and text editor, specifically for editing outlines. It could look somewhat like this: http://www.tranglos.com/ecco.gif (screenshot of Ecco Pro, a once-popular and still used, but discontinued infomanager. It does much more than edit outlines, but it has an excellent built-in outline editor. The screenshot shows a document that comes with Ecco, with some font tweaks to show off the capabilities.) Similar and perhaps more modern looking: http://john.redmood.com/bict589.gif It really is a cross between a tree and a memo. It looks like a tree and behaves like one in many respects (indented hierarchy, collapsible items), but when you type in it, it feels like a regular text editor where you can navigate freely over the whole area except to the left of the lines, where bullets or numbers are automatically shown. It stays in edit mode constantly - no F2 to edit, though ability to switch from edit to view-only mode might be useful. Unlike a tree, there is no bottom "node", no fixed number of items: you can scroll down, leave a hundred blank lines and start typing below them. Items must wrap and be of variable height. Some specialized behaviors, such as pressing return doesn't insert a linebreak, but inserts a whole new item. Configurable bullets/numbering. Ecco also supports columns, as if borrowing from listview in report mode, but this is not a core feature. Standard behaviors, of course, such as selecting text (across items) and ability to reorder and re-indent items via keyboard or mouse. Ideally it would work in virtual mode, polling for text via events. Meanwhile I'm trying to coax Mike Lischke's VirtualTree to do something along these lines, and it's just this side of possible, but while I've managed to get some of the flavor of the screenshots above, it's not fully usable. I guess the market isn't huge for this type of control, though when you need one, you need it badly, since nothing can quite replace it. I'd *run* to buy one if the price was reasonable; say, in the vicinity of the popular advanced memo replacements. ..marek -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.tranglos.com (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject) Back to top Herbert Sitz Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote "marek jedlinski" <marek (AT) tranglos (DOT) INVALID.com> wrote Quote: An outline editor. I don't think one exists for Delphi, but please do tell if I'm wrong. A specialized control, a hybrid of a treeview and text editor, specifically for editing outlines. It could look somewhat like this: http://www.tranglos.com/ecco.gif (screenshot of Ecco Pro, a once-popular and still used, but discontinued infomanager. It does much more than edit outlines, but it has an excellent built-in outline editor. The screenshot shows a document that comes with Ecco, with some font tweaks to show off the capabilities.) Similar and perhaps more modern looking: http://john.redmood.com/bict589.gif It really is a cross between a tree and a memo. It looks like a tree and behaves like one in many respects (indented hierarchy, collapsible items), but when you type in it, it feels like a regular text editor where you can You're asking for something pretty specialized and very high-level. It's unlikely that you would ever find that sold as a component. What you're asking for is more like a complete application. At one point I was thinking about building something like this with the DevExpress QuantumTreeList with each node holding an in-place cxMemo editor. Not sure whether that would offer advantages over VirtualTreeView or not. http://www.devexpress.com/Products/VCL/ExQuantumTreeList/ -- Herbert Sitz Back to top listmember Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 5:15 am    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote marek jedlinski wrote: Quote: An outline editor. I don't think one exists for Delphi, but please do tell if I'm wrong. A specialized control, a hybrid of a treeview and text editor, specifically for editing outlines. It could look somewhat like this: I agree wholeheartedly with you that we need something along those lines and more. As far as what's available is concerned, I'd say CoolBreeze stuff is more suitable for that sort of thing that VirtualTree. But, I guess you've already looked into that. Cheers, Back to top Oliver Katins Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 9:11 am    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote Hello, look at http://www.tmssoftware.com/ for TParamTreeView could be what you seeking for after you can add your Custom Editors. Sincerely Oliver Katins Am Sat, 21 May 2005 05:59:58 +0200 schrieb marek jedlinski <marek (AT) tranglos (DOT) INVALID.com>: Quote: An outline editor. I don't think one exists for Delphi, but please do tell if I'm wrong. A specialized control, a hybrid of a treeview and text editor, specifically for editing outlines. It could look somewhat like this: http://www.tranglos.com/ecco.gif (screenshot of Ecco Pro, a once-popular and still used, but discontinued infomanager. It does much more than edit outlines, but it has an excellent built-in outline editor. The screenshot shows a document that comes with Ecco, with some font tweaks to show off the capabilities.) Similar and perhaps more modern looking: http://john.redmood.com/bict589.gif It really is a cross between a tree and a memo. It looks like a tree and behaves like one in many respects (indented hierarchy, collapsible items), but when you type in it, it feels like a regular text editor where you can navigate freely over the whole area except to the left of the lines, where bullets or numbers are automatically shown. It stays in edit mode constantly - no F2 to edit, though ability to switch from edit to view-only mode might be useful. Unlike a tree, there is no bottom "node", no fixed number of items: you can scroll down, leave a hundred blank lines and start typing below them. Items must wrap and be of variable height. Some specialized behaviors, such as pressing return doesn't insert a linebreak, but inserts a whole new item. Configurable bullets/numbering. Ecco also supports columns, as if borrowing from listview in report mode, but this is not a core feature. Standard behaviors, of course, such as selecting text (across items) and ability to reorder and re-indent items via keyboardor mouse. Ideally it would work in virtual mode, polling for text via events. Meanwhile I'm trying to coax Mike Lischke's VirtualTree to do something along these lines, and it's just this side of possible, but while I've managed to get some of the flavor of the screenshots above, it's not fully usable. I guess the market isn't huge for this type of control, though when you need one, you need it badly, since nothing can quite replace it. I'd *run* to buy one if the price was reasonable; say, in the vicinity of the popular advanced memo replacements. .marek -- Erstellt mit M2, Operas revolutionärem E-Mail-Modul: http://www.opera.com/m2/ Back to top Trev Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:09 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote Can't this be done with a VirtualTreeView from Delphi-Gems? Trev "marek jedlinski" <marek (AT) tranglos (DOT) INVALID.com> wrote Quote: An outline editor. I don't think one exists for Delphi, but please do tell if I'm wrong. A specialized control, a hybrid of a treeview and text editor, specifically for editing outlines. It could look somewhat like this: http://www.tranglos.com/ecco.gif (screenshot of Ecco Pro, a once-popular and still used, but discontinued infomanager. It does much more than edit outlines, but it has an excellent built-in outline editor. The screenshot shows a document that comes with Ecco, with some font tweaks to show off the capabilities.) Similar and perhaps more modern looking: http://john.redmood.com/bict589.gif It really is a cross between a tree and a memo. It looks like a tree and behaves like one in many respects (indented hierarchy, collapsible items), but when you type in it, it feels like a regular text editor where you can navigate freely over the whole area except to the left of the lines, where bullets or numbers are automatically shown. It stays in edit mode constantly - no F2 to edit, though ability to switch from edit to view-only mode might be useful. Unlike a tree, there is no bottom "node", no fixed number of items: you can scroll down, leave a hundred blank lines and start typing below them. Items must wrap and be of variable height. Some specialized behaviors, such as pressing return doesn't insert a linebreak, but inserts a whole new item. Configurable bullets/numbering. Ecco also supports columns, as if borrowing from listview in report mode, but this is not a core feature. Standard behaviors, of course, such as selecting text (across items) and ability to reorder and re-indent items via keyboard or mouse. Ideally it would work in virtual mode, polling for text via events. Meanwhile I'm trying to coax Mike Lischke's VirtualTree to do something along these lines, and it's just this side of possible, but while I've managed to get some of the flavor of the screenshots above, it's not fully usable. I guess the market isn't huge for this type of control, though when you need one, you need it badly, since nothing can quite replace it. I'd *run* to buy one if the price was reasonable; say, in the vicinity of the popular advanced memo replacements. .marek -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.tranglos.com (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject) Back to top marek jedlinski Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote On 20 May 2005 22:15:12 -0700, "listmember" <listmember (AT) letterboxes (DOT) org> wrote: Quote: As far as what's available is concerned, I'd say CoolBreeze stuff is more suitable for that sort of thing that VirtualTree. But, I guess you've already looked into that. I have and haven't. All I've seen of CoolBreeze is a "listview with grouping". That doesn't seem related, and VT can do all that and more. Is there more to CoolBreeze? ..marek -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.tranglos.com (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject) Back to top marek jedlinski Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote On Fri, 20 May 2005 22:12:02 -0700, "Herbert Sitz" <hsitz (AT) nwlink (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: It really is a cross between a tree and a memo. It looks like a tree and behaves like one in many respects (indented hierarchy, collapsible items), but when you type in it, it feels like a regular text editor where you can You're asking for something pretty specialized and very high-level. It's unlikely that you would ever find that sold as a component. What you're asking for is more like a complete application. Specialized, yes, but I don't agree it's on the level of application complexity. VirtualTree is no less complex, and probably more so. It has headers and grid-like columnar mode - not required here. It has highly advanced drag and drop, also not required. VT has plenty of painting-related options, which could be simpler here. The main problem with any tree control is that it thinks of its items in terms of a tree, and controls them too much; a real outline editor needs to provide more freedom in navigation and editing. I could probably get by with modifying VT code; but so far I've tried working with it rather than against it :) Example: VT has a great feature called "static text" which is non-editable text displayed optionally with each item. It'd be perfect for showing item numbering (1.1, 1.2, 1.2.1) - except VT can only show static text after normal node caption, not before it, so no good for numbers. What I'm doing instead is prepending those numbers dynamically to captions of all nodes except the node being edited. This works fine, but fails in usability department, because when you scroll items, as each item enters edit mode its caption shifts to the left (it was "1.2.3 Node text" and now it's only "Node text"). This is annoying to look at and somewhat disorienting. But it is indeed very close to what I need. I've written a proof of concept app that can load an outline into VT and edit it quite successfully. It's just that the editing experience is rather angular, so to speak. The screenshots I posted show full text formatting, which adds a lot to the task, but it's not a requirement. It would suffice if I could specify font styles for each individual item, not for extents of text within items. ..marek -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.tranglos.com (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject) The media finally figured out that their "paying customers" (i.e. advertisers) don't WANT an intelligent, thoughtful audience. And they no longer have one." (Rich Tietjens) Back to top marek jedlinski Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 2:35 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote On Sat, 21 May 2005 15:09:17 +0100, "Trev" <trevor.pegley@[nospam]ntlworld.com> wrote: Quote: Can't this be done with a VirtualTreeView from Delphi-Gems? This is exactly what I said I was doing :) Quote: Meanwhile I'm trying to coax Mike Lischke's VirtualTree to do something along these lines, and it's just this side of possible, but while I've managed to get some of the flavor of the screenshots above, it's not fully usable. It works, but I haven't yet been able to make it fully usable, i.e. transparent to anyone who's not a programmer and has no idea they're working with a tree. It doesn't feel sufficiently editor-like, but I probably haven't discovered everything yet. I've just posted some more about this above. ..marek -- No ads, no nags freeware: http://www.tranglos.com (KeyNote, PhoneDeck, KookieJar, Oubliette, URLInject) Back to top Julian Ziersch Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:37 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote Hi, WPTools 5 is based on a tree like paragraph tree. Something likes this should be possible to make with some changes in the code and some additional events. Already now it has a 'XML View' (selectable in the demo 1 under 'View') which shows a tree like, collapsable view to the text. This mode is only for debugging purpose, but until now nobody has asked more about it so I left it as it is. With some events it should be possible to control indent, show bullets etc. Of course, WPTools is a word processing component suite, not a treeview, but for editing an outline it should be pretty powerful and printing is no problem. http://www.wpcubed.com/products/wptools/index.htm Julian Ziersch WPCubed GmbH Back to top Herbert Sitz Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote "marek jedlinski" <marek (AT) tranglos (DOT) INVALID.com> wrote Quote: Specialized, yes, but I don't agree it's on the level of application complexity. VirtualTree is no less complex, and probably more so. It has headers and grid-like columnar mode - not required here. It has highly advanced drag and drop, also not required. VT has plenty of painting-related options, which could be simpler here. The main problem with any tree control is that it thinks of its items in terms of a tree, and controls them too much; a real outline editor needs to provide more freedom in navigation and editing. You may well be right. I was thinking more that VTView is more of a general purpose component from which people can pick and choose functionality they need, whereas an outline editor is something more specialized. But it may well be that more people are interested in an outline editor component than I think. I certainly would be. Quote: I've written a proof of concept app that can load an outline into VT and edit it quite successfully. It's just that the editing experience is rather angular, so to speak. The screenshots I posted show full text formatting, which adds a lot to the task, but it's not a requirement. It would suffice if I could specify font styles for each individual item, not for extents of text within items. Very cool. I still wonder whether the DevExpress TreeList might make things easier. But since they don't have trial version it's harder for you to check out. I expect that perhaps it might make some things easier and some things harder. One advantage could be that the QuantumTreeList supports data bound controls. And it also supports fairly full featured cxMemo in-place editor component. So I was thinking that each row would be bound to a table with four fields, node, parentnode, outline heading text, and a memo field holding text of that row. -- Herb Back to top listmember Guest Posted: Sat May 21, 2005 9:31 pm    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote marek jedlinski wrote: Quote: On 20 May 2005 22:15:12 -0700, "listmember" [email]listmember (AT) letterboxes (DOT) org[/email]> wrote: As far as what's available is concerned, I'd say CoolBreeze stuff is more suitable for that sort of thing that VirtualTree. But, I guess you've already looked into that. I have and haven't. All I've seen of CoolBreeze is a "listview with grouping". That doesn't seem related, and VT can do all that and more. Is there more to CoolBreeze? Yes, plenty more. CB is VT re-done and better. Take a look at some of the demos. Back to top Lauchlan M Guest Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 12:22 am    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote Quote: As far as what's available is concerned, I'd say CoolBreeze stuff is more suitable for that sort of thing that VirtualTree. But, I guess you've already looked into that. I have and haven't. All I've seen of CoolBreeze is a "listview with grouping". That doesn't seem related, and VT can do all that and more. Is there more to CoolBreeze? Yes, plenty more. CB is VT re-done and better. Take a look at some of the demos. What's the link? Lauchlan M Back to top listmember Guest Posted: Sun May 22, 2005 1:47 am    Post subject: Re: VCL component I wish someone wrote Lauchlan M wrote: Quote: As far as what's available is concerned, I'd say CoolBreeze stuff is more suitable for that sort of thing that VirtualTree. But, I guess you've already looked into that. I have and haven't. All I've seen of CoolBreeze is a "listview with grouping". That doesn't seem related, and VT can do all that and more. Is there more to CoolBreeze? Yes, plenty more. CB is VT re-done and better. Take a look at some of the demos. What's the link? Lauchlan M Join in news.mustangpeak.net and take it from there :-) Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Thirdparty Tools (General) All times are GMT Page 1 of 1   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.