BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  What can .Net do for me? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:08 pm    Post subject: What can .Net do for me? I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. Linda Scherzer SYS-10, Inc. PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. Back to top BOB-O-MATIC Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:14 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Quote: PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. Masochist. Back to top Wilbert van Leijen Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? "Linda Scherzer" <lindascherzer (AT) sys-10 (DOT) com> wrote in message Quote: OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? None I can think of. But first you have to port (=rewrite) your existing applications to find out about that fact. Then you will notice that everything runs slower. Quote: At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. For the majority of customers, it will mean an added download of the .net runtime, weighing in at 22 MByte - or so I believe. Quote: I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. The most often heard argument is a negative one: that we will have no choice but to develop in .net, because Microsoft is going to impose it on us. Back to top Abdullah Kauchali Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:34 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Wilbert van Leijen wrote: Quote: The most often heard argument is a negative one: that we will have no choice but to develop in .net, because Microsoft is going to impose it on us. It certainly seems a thin line between carrot and stick, doesn't it? :) Back to top Wilbert van Leijen Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:46 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? "Abdullah Kauchali" <non (AT) non (DOT) com> wrote in message Quote: It certainly seems a thin line between carrot and stick, doesn't it? Does Microsoft lead by example in this regard? If so, point me to a Truly Great App from them, running on the .net platform. There was a time, I subscribed to Dr. Dobb's magazine. It sang the praises of Java in every issue. This got me worried, for I had yet to find out how to incorporate this new shiny programming language in my plans. And I felt a bit marooned, for nobody in my block had any plans to do the same. Was I surrounded by dinosaurs, who had failed to keep up with the times? (I was working at The Giant Publishing Company at the time.) Was it time to move on? I solved the problem thus: I decided to ignore the whole Java thing and cancelled my subscription. The world restored itself to its old equilibrium. Of course, when I heard about how the endeavour to create an office suite in Java turned out to be a grandiose flop, I was not really suprised. And I did move on though. But that was not for technical reasons. Back to top Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:11 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Maybe your subscription was the aberration and canceling it restored world order. "Wilbert van Leijen" <wilbert{remove}@ksu.nl> wrote Quote: "Abdullah Kauchali" <non (AT) non (DOT) com> wrote in message It certainly seems a thin line between carrot and stick, doesn't it? :) Does Microsoft lead by example in this regard? If so, point me to a Truly Great App from them, running on the .net platform. There was a time, I subscribed to Dr. Dobb's magazine. It sang the praises of Java in every issue. This got me worried, for I had yet to find out how to incorporate this new shiny programming language in my plans. And I felt a bit marooned, for nobody in my block had any plans to do the same. Was I surrounded by dinosaurs, who had failed to keep up with the times? (I was working at The Giant Publishing Company at the time.) Was it time to move on? I solved the problem thus: I decided to ignore the whole Java thing and cancelled my subscription. The world restored itself to its old equilibrium. Of course, when I heard about how the endeavour to create an office suite in Java turned out to be a grandiose flop, I was not really suprised. And I did move on though. But that was not for technical reasons. Back to top Gbenga Abimbola Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:04 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? A lot. Why do you think Borland is going that direction? Why do you think Oracle is writing plugins for Visual Studio.NET, so that, you can connect directly to Oracle, using Oracle database connection component? Microsoft has redefined its future around .NET, and if you want to continue to write for Windows environment, it is time to join on the .NET train. Well, you may choose to go for Java/J2EE, which is "...multiplatiforms." ..NET is elegant. Note that the architect of Delphi is also one of the architect of .NET. Just look at C#, besides its syntax, you can see many similarities to Delphi. As for me, I have started looking into C#, while still retaining the "almighty" Delphi. VB.NET is cool too, but because of VB reputation in the past, people seem to ignore that the langauge has changed completely. Perhaps, Microsoft needs to give it a different name like "Enforcer", "Jarkata", or "Endeavor." But, what is in a name? It is nor arm, nor leg.... But a name can be very compelling. If Delphi were given a name like Object Pascal, chances are that I won't look into it. Trust me, the first time I delve into Delphi, I was taken by its name. However, I stuck with it, because, it is an elegant language. Once upon a time, it is O.K., to say that, "Jack of all trades, master of nothing." Things have changed; you had better be "Jack of all trades, master of most...." Charles McAllister <charles (AT) avimark (DOT) net> wrote: Quote: Disclaimer: I'm a win32 programmer, that has only merely dabbled with the .net framework, and haven't purchased D2005... Linda Scherzer wrote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. FWIW, there are a few buisness resons to upgrade to D2005, that don't have anything to do w/ .net. For instance, see reviewer's guide... http://www.borland.com/products/white_papers/del2005_revguide.html OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? It depends a lot on the type of applications you write. My opinion is that the major sell behind writing .Net applications, is programmer productivity (you didn't want to hear that right? <g>) For instance, the garbage collector in .Net means programmers tend not to worry *as much* about memory deallocations. Also, there have been (and will be more) language improvements in Delphi due specifically to supporting .Net. Also, people around here rave about ASP.NET, but i can't comment about that because i'm not a web developer. Maybe someone else can comment... At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. I can think of several benefits... 1. Increased productivity can mean more features to your customers for same or less effort. 2. Your customers can also be subject to microsoft's marketing machine (FUD), and may perceive your product as being more 'cutting edge' if you run under .Net. 3. Its possible that your code is more portable among various microsoft platforms, and less possible under non-microsoft platforms, via Mono. I personally haven't felt any of these benefits as being compelling reason for switching to purely .Net development, considering that it would entail a significant reworking of the source code I maintain. I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. Linda Scherzer SYS-10, Inc. PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. fun isn't it? Its weird that there could be so much drama lately about delphi. Back to top Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:06 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? "Charles McAllister" <charles (AT) avimark (DOT) net> wrote Quote: Disclaimer: I'm a win32 programmer, that has only merely dabbled with the .net framework, and haven't purchased D2005... My disclaimer: Delphi programmer from version 1 thru 6. I have the D2005 trial but I can't actually try any of my programs because I haven't purchased all my third party components for the new version. So I haven't gotten very far and may not before the trial is up. Quote: Linda Scherzer wrote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. FWIW, there are a few buisness resons to upgrade to D2005, that don't have anything to do w/ .net. For instance, see reviewer's guide... http://www.borland.com/products/white_papers/del2005_revguide.html Thanks for the reference. I had gotten a few of their articles but missed this one. I've saved it but not read it yet. Quote: OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? It depends a lot on the type of applications you write. My opinion is that the major sell behind writing .Net applications, is programmer productivity (you didn't want to hear that right? <g>) I work for myself. Yes, I do want to be more productive. Then I have more time for personal projects. Quote: For instance, the garbage collector in .Net means programmers tend not to worry *as much* about memory deallocations. Also, there have been (and will be more) language improvements in Delphi due specifically to supporting .Net. Also, people around here rave about ASP.NET, but i can't comment about that because i'm not a web developer. Maybe someone else can comment... At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. I can think of several benefits... 1. Increased productivity can mean more features to your customers for same or less effort. 2. Your customers can also be subject to microsoft's marketing machine (FUD), and may perceive your product as being more 'cutting edge' if you run under .Net. 3. Its possible that your code is more portable among various microsoft platforms, and less possible under non-microsoft platforms, via Mono. With one customer, I think the idea of "new" technology (.Net) might well be a hot button. Also, will the apps be able to "look" more modern? Whatever that means! But for another - well let me put it this way: They have just recently contracted for me to adapt a version of my existing apps for them to handle the order/inventory process for one of their customers, so they aren't forced to keep a very old 95 machine to run Frameworks (DOS spreadsheet, very pre-Excel). dotNet is not on their horizon. Quote: I personally haven't felt any of these benefits as being compelling reason for switching to purely .Net development, considering that it would entail a significant reworking of the source code I maintain. Well, Delphi 2005 threatens to convert source to .Net painlessly. Again, I can't tell if my accounting, billing, inventory apps will port easily or not. Unless I invest in the third party component upgrades. Hmmmm maybe they have a 30 day return policy. Quote: I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. Linda Scherzer SYS-10, Inc. PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. fun isn't it? Its weird that there could be so much drama lately about delphi. Back to top Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:10 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Everything you write is all well and good. (I'm not committing to agreement.) But what is included in "A lot"? Linda "Gbenga Abimbola" <gabimbola (AT) columbus (DOT) gov> wrote Quote: A lot. Why do you think Borland is going that direction? Why do you think Oracle is writing plugins for Visual Studio.NET, so that, you can connect directly to Oracle, using Oracle database connection component? Microsoft has redefined its future around .NET, and if you want to continue to write for Windows environment, it is time to join on the .NET train. Well, you may choose to go for Java/J2EE, which is "...multiplatiforms." .NET is elegant. Note that the architect of Delphi is also one of the architect of .NET. Just look at C#, besides its syntax, you can see many similarities to Delphi. As for me, I have started looking into C#, while still retaining the "almighty" Delphi. VB.NET is cool too, but because of VB reputation in the past, people seem to ignore that the langauge has changed completely. Perhaps, Microsoft needs to give it a different name like "Enforcer", "Jarkata", or "Endeavor." But, what is in a name? It is nor arm, nor leg.... But a name can be very compelling. If Delphi were given a name like Object Pascal, chances are that I won't look into it. Trust me, the first time I delve into Delphi, I was taken by its name. However, I stuck with it, because, it is an elegant language. Once upon a time, it is O.K., to say that, "Jack of all trades, master of nothing." Things have changed; you had better be "Jack of all trades, master of most...." Charles McAllister <charles (AT) avimark (DOT) net> wrote: Disclaimer: I'm a win32 programmer, that has only merely dabbled with the .net framework, and haven't purchased D2005... Linda Scherzer wrote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. FWIW, there are a few buisness resons to upgrade to D2005, that don't have anything to do w/ .net. For instance, see reviewer's guide... http://www.borland.com/products/white_papers/del2005_revguide.html OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? It depends a lot on the type of applications you write. My opinion is that the major sell behind writing .Net applications, is programmer productivity (you didn't want to hear that right? <g>) For instance, the garbage collector in .Net means programmers tend not to worry *as much* about memory deallocations. Also, there have been (and will be more) language improvements in Delphi due specifically to supporting .Net. Also, people around here rave about ASP.NET, but i can't comment about that because i'm not a web developer. Maybe someone else can comment... At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. I can think of several benefits... 1. Increased productivity can mean more features to your customers for same or less effort. 2. Your customers can also be subject to microsoft's marketing machine (FUD), and may perceive your product as being more 'cutting edge' if you run under .Net. 3. Its possible that your code is more portable among various microsoft platforms, and less possible under non-microsoft platforms, via Mono. I personally haven't felt any of these benefits as being compelling reason for switching to purely .Net development, considering that it would entail a significant reworking of the source code I maintain. I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. Linda Scherzer SYS-10, Inc. PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. fun isn't it? Its weird that there could be so much drama lately about delphi. Back to top Charles McAllister Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Disclaimer: I'm a win32 programmer, that has only merely dabbled with the .net framework, and haven't purchased D2005... Linda Scherzer wrote: Quote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. FWIW, there are a few buisness resons to upgrade to D2005, that don't have anything to do w/ .net. For instance, see reviewer's guide... http://www.borland.com/products/white_papers/del2005_revguide.html Quote: OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? It depends a lot on the type of applications you write. My opinion is that the major sell behind writing .Net applications, is programmer productivity (you didn't want to hear that right? <g>) For instance, the garbage collector in .Net means programmers tend not to worry *as much* about memory deallocations. Also, there have been (and will be more) language improvements in Delphi due specifically to supporting .Net. Also, people around here rave about ASP.NET, but i can't comment about that because i'm not a web developer. Maybe someone else can comment... Quote: At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. I can think of several benefits... 1. Increased productivity can mean more features to your customers for same or less effort. 2. Your customers can also be subject to microsoft's marketing machine (FUD), and may perceive your product as being more 'cutting edge' if you run under .Net. 3. Its possible that your code is more portable among various microsoft platforms, and less possible under non-microsoft platforms, via Mono. I personally haven't felt any of these benefits as being compelling reason for switching to purely ..Net development, considering that it would entail a significant reworking of the source code I maintain. Quote: I'd be happy with a direction to continue my research. Linda Scherzer SYS-10, Inc. PS: I've enjoyed reading all the varying opinions about Delphi 2005, .Net and 64 bit computers. fun isn't it? Its weird that there could be so much drama lately about delphi. Back to top Kristofer Skaug Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:04 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Gbenga Abimbola wrote: Quote: A lot. Why do you think Borland is going that direction? Why do you think Oracle is writing plugins for Visual Studio.NET, so that, you can connect directly to Oracle, using Oracle database connection component? These are developer tool market forces, hardly related to actual software end user benefits. (i.e. the products coming out of dev tools). -- Kristofer Back to top Brian Moelk Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Quote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. Delphi 2005 Update 3 is finally usable. I like the IDE when I've been able to use it. Quote: OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. For end users not much. Things like Unicode are much better supported in ..NET, so if your customers care about that, then it will be important. WebServices and ASP.NET are nicely done as well. However RemObjects and Intraweb are very nice for Delphi...so it's hard to make business case for it if you are a Delphi developer IMO. Of course there is the whole industry bandwagon, skillset, and hiring arguments which are all business cases. -- Brian Moelk [email]bmoelk (AT) NObrainendeavorSPAM (DOT) FORc[/email]omME http://www.brainendeavor.com Back to top marc hoffman Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:57 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? Linda, Quote: At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. ..NET, just like Delphi/Win32, doesn't do anything that cannot be done by hand-coding assembler. The benefit of advanced tools is in developer productivity and how fast you can get quality software out to customers. The customer doesn't (or shouldn't) care what technology was used to achieve the goal. Back to top Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:12 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? But I do need to convince them to pay me to do the conversion or whatever it takes. Thanks for the thoughts. "marc hoffman" <mh (AT) spam (DOT) spam> wrote Quote: Linda, At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. .NET, just like Delphi/Win32, doesn't do anything that cannot be done by hand-coding assembler. The benefit of advanced tools is in developer productivity and how fast you can get quality software out to customers. The customer doesn't (or shouldn't) care what technology was used to achieve the goal. Back to top Linda Scherzer Guest Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What can .Net do for me? I think the "bandwagon" idea will be important for at least one customer. What I'm waiting to hear is something about .Net making programs somehow more "internet ready" (whatever that might mean). Something that actually takes the user environment to a new comfort level. I've gotten comfortable and productive in each version of Delphi I've used - except for 1, only the even versions - 2, 4, 6. But customers need a new warm fuzzy now and then too. I guess with .Net at least customers' programs will be more ready for whatever Microsoft comes up with for OS's in the future. Or at least we can hope that. Linda PS: I just found out my third party tools (InfoPower from Woll2Woll) have a 30 day return policy, so I've ordered them and can finally test some existing programs. "Brian Moelk" <bmoelk (AT) NObrainendeavorSPAM (DOT) FORcomME> wrote Quote: I'm looking for a business reason to upgrade to Delphi 2005. Delphi 2005 Update 3 is finally usable. I like the IDE when I've been able to use it. OK, so .Net is Microsoft's idea of the future. But what added functionality does it give my Delphi 6 applications? At this point I'm not asking about the benefits to me the developer. I need benefits to a customer's company and users. For end users not much. Things like Unicode are much better supported in .NET, so if your customers care about that, then it will be important. WebServices and ASP.NET are nicely done as well. However RemObjects and Intraweb are very nice for Delphi...so it's hard to make business case for it if you are a Delphi developer IMO. Of course there is the whole industry bandwagon, skillset, and hiring arguments which are all business cases. -- Brian Moelk [email]bmoelk (AT) NObrainendeavorSPAM (DOT) FORc[/email]omME http://www.brainendeavor.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8  Next Page 1 of 8   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.