BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  What happens to CLX? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message bjorn@softace.no Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:37 am    Post subject: What happens to CLX? Are cross-platform development and CLX being sacrificed for .NET? What's the position for CLX today? Is it dead? -- Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/ Back to top Craig Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:04 am    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Quote: Are cross-platform development and CLX being sacrificed for .NET? What's the position for CLX today? Is it dead? The primary purpose of CLX seemed to be the facilitation of cross platform development with Windows & Linux. But as hardly anyone bough Kylix I wouldn't bet my house on CLX. I would guess that dispite it's troubles Delphi 2005 has already sold more copies than Kylix ever did so investing in ..NET ahead of CLX seems like a good thing for Borland. Craig. Back to top Bryce K. Nielsen Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:03 am    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Quote: The primary purpose of CLX seemed to be the facilitation of cross platform development with Windows & Linux. But as hardly anyone bough Kylix I wouldn't bet my house on CLX. I would guess that dispite it's troubles Delphi 2005 has already sold more copies than Kylix ever did so investing in .NET ahead of CLX seems like a good thing for Borland. I vaguely remember the Borland marketing engine stating that the CLX library was not intended for a Win-Linux only library. Rather, it was the first steps towards a many-platform code-base. There were ideas planted that future platforms may-be created that CLX would be available for. I was hoping that the DotNet library would be satisfied with CLX, so we truly would have a one-code-base for 3-platforms, but that never happened... -BKN Back to top Robert Horbry-Smith Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:54 am    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Quote: The primary purpose of CLX seemed to be the facilitation of cross platform development with Windows & Linux. But as hardly anyone bough .... I bought Delphi because it gives me a path to Linux. Because it can, more people will by it, even though they may never actually make the move. It's another attribute that distinguishes the product from gatesware. Robert H Back to top Andreas Hausladen Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Bryce K. Nielsen wrote: Quote: There were ideas planted that future platforms may-be created that CLX would be available for. The Qt2 framework which is used by Kylix was available for Win, Linux and OSX at that time. And almost all assembler code had a PUREPASCAL replacement. Quote: I was hoping that the DotNet library would be satisfied with CLX, This is still possible. And will not much work it could be a Qt3Clx.NET. I thought about this yesterday. And as it was possible to have a VCL.NET it would be also possible to have a CLX.NET. But nobody works on such a beast. -- Regards, Andreas Hausladen Back to top Thomas Pfister Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Quote: Are CLX components present in Delphi after Studio 7? no Quote: You're probably right about Kylix not selling. It's sad. Linux has a solid future and is getting more momentum every day. Seems to me Windows 32 apps will be around for some time too. but less people want to pay for an IDE for linux :-( :-) thomas I found more info about CLX on this page: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,29460,00.html Are CLX components present in Delphi after Studio 7? I can't find anything in the feature matrix in newer Delphi releases. ...so it's still somewhat fuzzy to me what the future of cross-platform will be. Back to top Roby Della Pasqua Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:15 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? IMHO people don't have buy kylix due to the ide-clx bugs and hell-libraries-dependency of applications; but at begin big hype was around the product, simply the product has disappointed a large part of the delphi community, add to this a highly targeted price... what a pity. "Thomas Pfister" <thomas (AT) spam-mail (DOT) de> wrote Quote: Are CLX components present in Delphi after Studio 7? no You're probably right about Kylix not selling. It's sad. Linux has a solid future and is getting more momentum every day. Seems to me Windows 32 apps will be around for some time too. but less people want to pay for an IDE for linux :-( :-) thomas I found more info about CLX on this page: http://bdn.borland.com/article/0,1410,29460,00.html Are CLX components present in Delphi after Studio 7? I can't find anything in the feature matrix in newer Delphi releases. ...so it's still somewhat fuzzy to me what the future of cross-platform will be. Back to top juliusz Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Quote: Tony Caduto wrote: As usual Borland messed up with Kylix initially with the price and it created a bad feeling about the product. I don't think it sold "bad", just not as good as they thought. According to Dale Fuller interview it didn't sell at all. How it could be? In my opinion Kylix was selling, but apparently not enough due to gross mismatch with market expectations. If you will have the opportunity to read the Borland's SEC documents you will notice that at some point a dramatic drop of income from Kylix sales and dramatic increase income from Delphi 7 ( Delphi 7 contained free Kylix 3) Many people opted for Delphi 7 with Kylix 3 because it was a better deal. If Kylix 3 would be marketed with Delphi 7 then who knows what the official sales figures would be. The official sales figures of any product can be easily misconstrued. Kylix is on the market to this day, but I am sure that not to many people will buy it, because it is sold with all the bugs in it, for a very long time it is not supported and does not work with current Linux technology, even it is hard to find any of the Linux distros Kylix officially supports. Kylix had one essential selling point, it offered cross-platform development. The current version of Delphi lacks the needed cross-platform features and this devaluates the value of Kylix even more, because there is no counterpart of CLX in current Delphi and Delphi 7 is removed from the marked long time ago. How one can do the cross-platform development with Kylix and Delphi if Kylix does not work on current Linux and current Delphi does not have the CLX subsystem ? juliusz Back to top juliusz Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Bjørn T. Jønsson wrote: Quote: Thanks for the tip about Lazarus! Although I'm reluctant to switch development platform, it may be necessarry in the end... I am doing a test project with Lazarus (porting Kylix application) and it looks really promising. juliusz Back to top Tony Caduto Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 1:24 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? As usual Borland messed up with Kylix initially with the price and it created a bad feeling about the product. I don't think it sold "bad", just not as good as they thought. You can always use Lazarus, which is getting better all the time... Quote: You're probably right about Kylix not selling. It's sad. Linux has a solid future and is getting more momentum every day. Seems to me Windows 32 apps will be around for some time too. Back to top Jeff Overcash (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 3:13 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Tony Caduto wrote: Quote: As usual Borland messed up with Kylix initially with the price and it created a bad feeling about the product. I don't think it sold "bad", just not as good as they thought. According to Dale Fuller interview it didn't sell at all. -- Jeff Overcash (TeamB) On waves of silver I dreamed of gold (Please do not email 'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives me directly unless I dreamed of the moment of my own death asked. Thank You) That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion) Back to top juliusz Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Quote: How do you know what the expectations actually were. I have never seen any public statement about Borland's expected sales. The only thing I can figure is that you are placing your expectations onto Borland and assuming that they must match. Jeff, I am talking here about Linux market expectation , not expectation of Borland. In my opinion Kylix could do much better if it could offer what Linux market wanted not what Borland assumed Linux marked needs. Quote: Please post a link to the SEC filing. Borland has NEVER broken down by IDE what sales they had. At no time. You are now just making things up to back your opinion. Kylix has always been in the RAD group which contains Delphi. They have never broken the RAD group down further than that AFAIK. If you can post the link I'd be interested to see, but if you can't please don't state as fact things that never happened. Borland is publicly trading company, all of the SEC filling are publically available. It is true that Borland never break down income by the IDE, nor I was claiming that, please don't state as fact things that never happened. In another words don't put words in my mouth. It is not nice to publicly accuse somebody for making things up; I could accuse you for making things up too, but I prefer to think that you just simply misinterpreted what I said. You do not need to apologize for that. Nevertheless, at some point Borland indicated in SEC filling that there is drop from Kylix sales, and to that I was referring, not to exact numerical interpretation. So, opinion that that Kylix did not sell at *all* cannot be sustained, because I believe that SEC fillings are more reliable source of information then somebodys opinion on that subject. I do not have much time to find the exact quote for you but if you go to http://www.sec.gov and search for Kylix in Borland archive area you will be able easily spot all the relevant info about Kylix. juliusz Quote: Here is a typical filing from that time "Licenses and other revenues represent amounts earned for granting customers licenses to use our software products. Licenses and other revenues were $187.0 million, $163.7 million and $150.6 million for the years ended December 31, 2001, 2000 and 1999, respectively. Licenses and other revenues represented 84%, 86% and 86% of total revenues for the years ended December 31, 2001, 2000 and 1999, respectively. Licenses and other revenues from our Java, RAD, Enterprise and other products group represented 41%, 31%, 23% and 5%, respectively, of total licenses and other revenues for the year ended December 31, 2001. This is compared to 31%, 33%, 28% and 8% for the year ended December 31, 2000. Our Java product group consists of JBuilder, Borland Enterprise Studio for Java and other JBuilder and Java development products, including JBuilder MobileSet. Our RAD product group consists of Delphi, Kylix and C++Builder. Our Enterprise product group consists of our Borland Enterprise Server family, including AppServer Edition, VisiBroker Edition, Web Edition and Borland AppCenter. Our other products group consists primarily of InterBase. Total license revenues increased in the current year primarily due to an increase in sales of our Java development products. During the year ended December 31, 2001, the sales from our Java product group increased 51% when compared to the previous year, primarily due to both growth in the market and a continuation of our leading position. The increased revenues from this product group were partially offset by a decrease in our Enterprise product group, which decreased approximately 7% from the prior year, principally due to the impact of the economic conditions in the United States that resulted in a decreased demand from our U.S. customers. If economic conditions in the United States were to decline, we would expect our revenues from the Enterprise group to be negatively affected. Revenues from our RAD product group increased slightly from the previous year." Notice only a RAD percetnage is mentioned (it generated 31% of the 187 million in 2001), no breakdown of the individual products within the RAD group. This is as far as Borland has ever gone during the Kylix days. Back to top juliusz Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 4:38 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? juliusz wrote: Quote: Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: How do you know what the expectations actually were. I have never seen any public statement about Borland's expected sales. The only thing I can figure is that you are placing your expectations onto Borland and assuming that they must match. Jeff, I am talking here about Linux market expectation , not expectation of Borland. In my opinion Kylix could do much better if it could offer what Linux market wanted not what Borland assumed Linux marked needs. Please post a link to the SEC filing. Borland has NEVER broken down by IDE what sales they had. At no time. You are now just making things up to back your opinion. Kylix has always been in the RAD group which contains Delphi. They have never broken the RAD group down further than that AFAIK. If you can post the link I'd be interested to see, but if you can't please don't state as fact things that never happened. Borland is publicly trading company, all of the SEC filling are publically available. It is true that Borland never break down income by the IDE, nor I was claiming that, please don't state as fact things that never happened. In another words don't put words in my mouth. It is not nice to publicly accuse somebody for making things up; I could accuse you for making things up too, but I prefer to think that you just simply misinterpreted what I said. You do not need to apologize for that. Nevertheless, at some point Borland indicated in SEC filling that there is drop from Kylix sales, and to that I was referring, not to exact numerical interpretation. So, opinion that that Kylix did not sell at *all* cannot be sustained, because I believe that SEC fillings are more reliable source of information then somebodys opinion on that subject. I do not have much time to find the exact quote for you but if you go to http://www.sec.gov and search for Kylix in Borland archive area you will be able easily spot all the relevant info about Kylix. juliusz Jeff, just as a curtsey to you, there it is: For the quarterly period ended September 30, 2002 "Revenues from our RAD business declined 1% during the nine months ended September 30, 2002, when compared with the same period in 2001. Lower revenues in our RAD business were principally attributable to a decline in revenues from our Kylix product. " "Higher revenues in our RAD business were principally attributable to the release of Delphi 7 during the three months ended September 30, 2002." juliusz Back to top Jeff Overcash (TeamB) Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 5:05 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? juliusz wrote: Quote: Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Tony Caduto wrote: As usual Borland messed up with Kylix initially with the price and it created a bad feeling about the product. I don't think it sold "bad", just not as good as they thought. According to Dale Fuller interview it didn't sell at all. How it could be? In my opinion Kylix was selling, but apparently not enough due to gross mismatch with market expectations. How do you know what the expectations actually were. I have never seen any public statement about Borland's expected sales. The only thing I can figure is that you are placing your expectations onto Borland and assuming that they must match. Quote: If you will have the opportunity to read the Borland's SEC documents you will notice that at some point a dramatic drop of income from Kylix sales and dramatic increase income from Delphi 7 ( Delphi 7 contained free Kylix 3) Many people opted for Delphi 7 with Kylix 3 because it was a better deal. If Kylix 3 would be marketed with Delphi 7 then who knows what the official sales figures would be. The official sales figures of any product can be easily misconstrued. Please post a link to the SEC filing. Borland has NEVER broken down by IDE what sales they had. At no time. You are now just making things up to back your opinion. Kylix has always been in the RAD group which contains Delphi. They have never broken the RAD group down further than that AFAIK. If you can post the link I'd be interested to see, but if you can't please don't state as fact things that never happened. Here is a typical filing from that time "Licenses and other revenues represent amounts earned for granting customers licenses to use our software products. Licenses and other revenues were $187.0 million, $163.7 million and $150.6 million for the years ended December 31, 2001, 2000 and 1999, respectively. Licenses and other revenues represented 84%, 86% and 86% of total revenues for the years ended December 31, 2001, 2000 and 1999, respectively. Licenses and other revenues from our Java, RAD, Enterprise and other products group represented 41%, 31%, 23% and 5%, respectively, of total licenses and other revenues for the year ended December 31, 2001. This is compared to 31%, 33%, 28% and 8% for the year ended December 31, 2000. Our Java product group consists of JBuilder, Borland Enterprise Studio for Java and other JBuilder and Java development products, including JBuilder MobileSet. Our RAD product group consists of Delphi, Kylix and C++Builder. Our Enterprise product group consists of our Borland Enterprise Server family, including AppServer Edition, VisiBroker Edition, Web Edition and Borland AppCenter. Our other products group consists primarily of InterBase. Total license revenues increased in the current year primarily due to an increase in sales of our Java development products. During the year ended December 31, 2001, the sales from our Java product group increased 51% when compared to the previous year, primarily due to both growth in the market and a continuation of our leading position. The increased revenues from this product group were partially offset by a decrease in our Enterprise product group, which decreased approximately 7% from the prior year, principally due to the impact of the economic conditions in the United States that resulted in a decreased demand from our U.S. customers. If economic conditions in the United States were to decline, we would expect our revenues from the Enterprise group to be negatively affected. Revenues from our RAD product group increased slightly from the previous year." Notice only a RAD percetnage is mentioned (it generated 31% of the 187 million in 2001), no breakdown of the individual products within the RAD group. This is as far as Borland has ever gone during the Kylix days. -- Jeff Overcash (TeamB) On waves of silver I dreamed of gold (Please do not email 'Till I lost the peace that dreaming gives me directly unless I dreamed of the moment of my own death asked. Thank You) That no one ever dreams and lives (Marillion) Back to top Ingvar Nilsen Guest Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2005 6:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What happens to CLX? Jeff Overcash (TeamB) wrote: Quote: How it could be? In my opinion Kylix was selling, but apparently not enough due to gross mismatch with market expectations. How do you know what the expectations actually were. I have never seen any public statement about Borland's expected sales. http://www.drbob42.com/kylix/2001.htm <quote> 2001/01/27 - Kylix Sales Expectations In the press release on Yahoo regarding the Fourth Quarter and Fiscal Year 2000 Earnings Results, Borland says to believe that "between one million and two million users of its highly successful Delphi and C++Builder(TM) development environments will make the move to this new tool for Linux application development." </quote> -- Ingvar Nilsen http://www.ingvarius.com Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Non-Technical All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next Page 1 of 5   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.