BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  What is the situation with the Borland C++? Goto page 1, 2, 3, 4  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 3:39 am    Post subject: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Hi I havent used the Borlands C++ builder for a while and i would like to know what is happening in that field(I have CB5 but it is rather old, but i really like it). I heard that Borland merged the builder with the Delphi. Is it good product at the moment, worth the price tag or would you recommend something else? How about Borlands support for the tools? I am looking for a new RAD development enviroment for c++ or for some other language and I would appreciate any advices that you can give me. Back to top JED Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:03 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Nathaniel L. Walker wrote: Quote: Delphi 7 is to Delphi Perhaps in your mind. I'd like to meet the people that can look me in the eye and tell me after 3 months of using BDS2006 they really think Delphi 7 is a better product and are going to go back to Delphi 7. Anyway this is probably off topic for a C++ group. -- Compact Framework for Delphi 2006: http://www.jed-software.com/cf.htm QualityCentral Windows Client: http://www.jed-software.com/qc.htm Visual Forms IDE Add In: http://www.jed-software.com/vf.htm Back to top Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:17 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Remy Lebeau (TeamB) wrote: Quote: worth the price tag or would you recommend something else? I suggest you look at the Turbo C++ edition first, to see how you like it. It is a slimmed down version of the full suite. You can then upgrade later if desired. Note: I guess Remy means the free Turbo C++ Explorer version: http://www.turboexplorer.com/ They are almost the full product (Professional edition), but free. You are allowed to create commercial applications with them, but you can't install your own components in their IDEs. You can construct and use components in code, but not install them in the IDE. You can also not install more than one Turbo product at the same time. -- Rudy Velthuis [TeamB] http://rvelthuis.de/ "God gave men both a penis and a brain, but unfortunately not enough blood supply to run both at the same time." -- Robin Williams, commenting on the Clinton/Lewinsky affair Back to top Nathaniel L. Walker Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Quote: Hi I havent used the Borlands C++ builder for a while and i would like to know what is happening in that field(I have CB5 but it is rather old, but i really like it). I heard that Borland merged the builder with the Delphi. Is it good product at the moment, worth the price tag or would you recommend something else? How about Borlands support for the tools? I am looking for a new RAD development enviroment for c++ or for some other language and I would appreciate any advices that you can give me. C++Builder is now integrated into Borland Developer Studio. They are making small advances in terms of standards compliance and compiler quality. It's a good toolchain for RAD C++ Development (unless you like .NET, where Visual C++ offers equivalent productivity for that platform). C++Builder 5 is to C++Builder what Delphi 7 is to Delphi. There best there ever was/is, so far... - Nate. Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 5:12 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? <juhanay (AT) mbnet (DOT) fi> wrote in message news:1166132371.441566.107820 (AT) f1g2000cwa (DOT) googlegroups.com... Quote: I heard that Borland merged the builder with the Delphi. That is correct, and has been publically available for some time now: Borland C++Builder 2006 http://www.borland.com/us/products/cbuilder/index.html Borland Turbo http://www.borland.com/us/products/turbo/index.html Quote: Is it good product at the moment It is better than it was, but like any version, it is not perfect. Quote: worth the price tag or would you recommend something else? I suggest you look at the Turbo C++ edition first, to see how you like it. It is a slimmed down version of the full suite. You can then upgrade later if desired. Gambit Back to top Remy Lebeau (TeamB) Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? "Rudy Velthuis [TeamB]" <newsgroups (AT) rvelthuis (DOT) de> wrote in message news:xn0euzcy5vnvvhu010xananews (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Note: I guess Remy means the free Turbo C++ Explorer version: That version is linked to by the Turbo URL I quoted earlier, and your URL contains a download link that points back to the Borland site. Gambit Back to top mr_organic Guest Posted: Fri Dec 15, 2006 7:52 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? "JED" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in news:xn0euzsee1hshc002 @newsgroups.borland.com: Quote: Nathaniel L. Walker wrote: Delphi 7 is to Delphi Perhaps in your mind. I'd like to meet the people that can look me in the eye and tell me after 3 months of using BDS2006 they really think Delphi 7 is a better product and are going to go back to Delphi 7. Anyway this is probably off topic for a C++ group. I can say for certain that CB5 is *definitely* better than BDS 2006. The IDE is far faster and more responsive; the Code Insight is more accurate (and faster); the help system is *light years* better. The biggest improvements in BDS2006 came in the linker and compiler, but the changes were pretty minimal in most respects (I still can't compile all of BOOST, for example, and the linker still chokes on large projects). And the refactoring engine in this release has ended up being pretty worthless in most respects; it amounts to little more than a global search-and-replace function. In many ways the old IDE was far more devleoper-friendly than the new one, at least for this C++ programmer: the Class Explorder, new Method/Property/Class wizards, COM/ATL wizards, background compilation.... In many ways, the "new, improved" BDS is a big step backwards. I do like the VCL-parity with Delphi, though. I've been wondering for quite awhile what the ultimate plan is for CodeGear and C++Builder. There's a huge amount of work needing to be done in both the IDE and the toolchain itself. The compiler is old and needs much conformance work; there is the question of whether or not to add the C++/CLI capability for .NET; native support for Unicode in the VCL (a critical issue, IMO); modernizing the linker; and updating the Win32 headers to include support for new Microsoft APIs. Then there are the issues with the IDE itself: refactoring, CodeInsight, the help system, on and on and on. I wish I had some insight (CodeGearInsight?) into how many people had been tasked to update the C++Builder portion of BDS, because the problems right now would require a large number of resources and a long period of time to correct. mr_organic Back to top Martin Hart Turner Guest Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Nathaniel: Quote: Perhaps in your mind. I'd like to meet the people that can look me in the eye and tell me after 3 months of using BDS2006 they really think Delphi 7 is a better product and are going to go back to Delphi 7. This is almost what I did! After 3 months of constant problems I reverted to BCB6 (and some older BCB5 projects). I sleep much easier now :-) Just my 2¢ worth... Martin. Back to top Relaxin Guest Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? "JED" <nospam (AT) nospam (DOT) com> wrote in message news:xn0euzsee1hshc002 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Nathaniel L. Walker wrote: Delphi 7 is to Delphi Perhaps in your mind. I'd like to meet the people that can look me in the eye and tell me after 3 months of using BDS2006 they really think Delphi 7 is a better product and are going to go back to Delphi 7. Anyway this is probably off topic for a C++ group. I went back to BCB4 after buying 2 copies of BDS 2006 Enterprise Back to top Alisdair Meredith[TeamB] Guest Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 7:19 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Martin Hart Turner wrote: Quote: This is almost what I did! After 3 months of constant problems I reverted to BCB6 (and some older BCB5 projects). I sleep much easier now :-) Just my 2¢ worth... Interesting. What were the source of your problems? Personally I have found BCB2006 much nicer than BCB6 in practice. The compiler has fixed some nasty code generation errors, the new VCL components are not earth-shattering but are nice, and our apps are finally XP themed just as Vista dawns! I am starting to actually use the CodeInsight type features rather than turn them off on install <g> And I don't have silly performance problems opening our project groups (~100 projects in a group) The docked IDE is certainly different and took a little getting used to, but on most other features that matter to me I am ahead, straight out the box. Probably worth noting we have minimal 3rd party dependencies, and those we are able to manage porting ourselved (Boost and Loki) The main 3rd party VCL we used was the LookOut control from Orpheus, which we dropped in favour of the new VCL controls that suit our application better. So we certainly avoided any 3rd party pain that others might see. Overall, I would definitely recommend BCB2006 as an upgrade, as it worked out well for us. As ever with such recommendations though, Your Milage May Vary. -- AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top Nathaniel L. Walker Guest Posted: Mon Dec 18, 2006 10:51 pm    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? It has nothing to do with third party dependencies, I have compiled Turbo Power: Orpheus, FlashFiler, LockBox, Visual PlanIt, XMLPartner, etc. with BCB6, Delphi 7, and BDS2006 and they work. Same goes for other components like IBObjects, ZeosDB, JCL/JVCL, etc. Also, you're dismissing the fact that BDS wasn't all that useful until they had released a bunch of hotfixes on top of the two updates (BCB wasn't useful until update 1 rolled around period, IMO). - Nate. Back to top Alisdair Meredith[TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Nathaniel L. Walker wrote: Quote: It has nothing to do with third party dependencies, I have compiled Turbo Power: Orpheus, FlashFiler, LockBox, Visual PlanIt, XMLPartner, etc. with BCB6, Delphi 7, and BDS2006 and they work. Same goes for other components like IBObjects, ZeosDB, JCL/JVCL, etc. Also, you're dismissing the fact that BDS wasn't all that useful until they had released a bunch of hotfixes on top of the two updates (BCB wasn't useful until update 1 rolled around period, IMO). BCB was not 'released' until update 1 rolled around, so everything above assumes Update 1, which I believe should be on all the disks shipped to customers ordering BCB licenses, vs Delphi, C# or general BDS. I certainly had value from the upgrades in that context, with or without hot-fixes, and am curious what specifically makes it preferable to roll back to an older release. As I said, YMMV and it may very well depend on what the product is being used for, but it has worked out quite well for us. -- AlisdairM(TeamB) Back to top Guest Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 7:31 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Thank you for your comments. I was very pleasantly surprised to hear about the turbo and I will try it first. I have one more question. Do you know any good 3D-graphics engines or something similar for borland products? Are they any good? Any experiences with them? Back to top Martin Hart Turner Guest Posted: Tue Dec 19, 2006 9:10 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Alisdair: Quote: Interesting. What were the source of your problems? I must first explain that I have been an avid BCB defender since Turbo C++, and have used it *very* productively for many years, but I got the feeling that BDS was rushed (yes, after so many years!) to get out the door before Borland put its tools up for sale (hoping to increase it's value, no doubt). Code folding is a joke, the help system is totally useless and I had serious problems with string encoding. The 'project to make' utility was late coming and was full of bugs - not to mention I wouldn't run on a system with NET 2.0 installed! All things considered I decided to go back to the devil I knew, yes, BCB6 has it's problems, but at least I know what they are. As for code generation problems, I don't seem to have hit that, or don't realize I have them! I am now supporting all our legacy applications with BCB and writing all our new apps. with C# under Visual Studio 2005. This has provided a great platform for our new programs and is always right up to date with new technologies (NET3, WWF, WCF, WPF). Finally, I very glad to see DevExpress (I use lots of their components) are still producing BCB products and I can easily update the appearance of my legacy apps. I'm really sorry I had to seek another product to do my development work as I have always been happy with Borland's products, but the complete and total ineptitude of management has pushed me away. First, they abandoned BCB, then they didn't, we had to wait *years* for updates, now we are selling the tools department, now we aren't - their heart is just not in it any more. This is why I reverted to BCB6. Regards, Martin. Back to top Charles Pope Guest Posted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 4:41 am    Post subject: Re: What is the situation with the Borland C++? Just to support the view. After a couple of false starts we have ported our OWL application to BDS 2006 and are very happy with the results. We are also looking at combining our Delphi code rolled into the one application. My experience with Visual C++ has been brief, but it hasn't been strong enough to justify the pain in porting across, along with the fact we have a lot of Delphi code. In the longer term .net may well be the way forward, but there isn't a compelling reason for client code at the moment. By the way, does anyone know a good code browser which would be helpful to navigate a whole project? Charles Quote: The docked IDE is certainly different and took a little getting used to, but on most other features that matter to me I am ahead, straight out the box. Probably worth noting we have minimal 3rd party dependencies, and those we are able to manage porting ourselved (Boost and Loki) The main 3rd party VCL we used was the LookOut control from Orpheus, which we dropped in favour of the new VCL controls that suit our application better. So we certainly avoided any 3rd party pain that others might see. Overall, I would definitely recommend BCB2006 as an upgrade, as it worked out well for us. As ever with such recommendations though, Your Milage May Vary. 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