BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:27 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version John wrote: Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? Nothing. Very few people are complaining about continuing to use it. What most people are complaining about is: * Not getting any decent updates for a long time. * Suddenly being told that our primary development tool has been killed off. * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. The reason a lot of people are looking at moving away from BCB is because the product appears to be dead and the company appears not to care. A developer that continues to use such a product from such a company is either desperate or foolhardy. Right now my view of the situation is: * BCB is in an unknown state but not yet officially dead. * Borland do care but suffered a resourcing issue and we drew the short straw. Borland are trying to address these issues and the strengths of BCB mean that I at least am willing to wait until the offical statement due sometime in the next month and a half. My position on TeamB also means that I am also not going to automatically drop Borland if they drop BCB. I've talked to enough of their staff to accept that it wasn't malicious intent nor incompetent management that caused the problems. -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top John Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:29 pm    Post subject: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? Back to top Kenneth de Camargo Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:30 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote: Quote: What most people are complaining about is: * Not getting any decent updates for a long time. * Suddenly being told that our primary development tool has been killed off. * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. You left the bit about the "open letters" out. <g> -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ * this is not a sig * Back to top Jurko Gospodnetiæ Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:33 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Hi John. "John" <jcurtis (AT) tandbergtv (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? Well, basically - there are bugs that were 'swallowed' only on the account of them getting fixed in 'the next release'. We all have to live with (and create ) good-enough software, but that system works only if you keep developing the product and making it better... if not - the users get their hopes and plans crushed... Just my 2c worth... Best regards, Jurko Gospodnetiæ Back to top Hendrik Schober Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:36 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version John <jcurtis (AT) tandbergtv (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? I cannot speak for others, but with our company it's a fact that our customers want more than they used to. As these customers won't spend more money on our products than they used to, we need to get better tools from our vendors than we used to. Otherwise we would all still do command line stuff for DOS -- if we ever reached that level. Schobi -- [email]SpamTrap (AT) gmx (DOT) de[/email] is never read I'm Schobi at suespammers dot org "The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be prefered to those thinking they've found it." Terry Pratchett Back to top Andrue Cope [TeamB] Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 1:50 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Kenneth de Camargo wrote: Quote: * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. You left the bit about the "open letters" out. <g They've caused enough confusion and annoyance already -- Andrue Cope [TeamB] [Bicester, Uk] http://info.borland.com/newsgroups/guide.html Back to top Kenneth de Camargo Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 2:46 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote: Quote: * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. You left the bit about the "open letters" out. <g They've caused enough confusion and annoyance already Indeed... -- Ken http://planeta.terra.com.br/educacao/kencamargo/ * this is not a sig * Back to top Duane Hebert Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:18 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version "Kenneth de Camargo" <INVERT:rb.moc.arret@jcrk> wrote Quote: Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote: What most people are complaining about is: * Not getting any decent updates for a long time. * Suddenly being told that our primary development tool has been killed off. * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. You left the bit about the "open letters" out. <g And the bit about the cross platform tool with the 100% compliant compiler Back to top Vesty Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:25 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version John wrote: Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? Whats wrong with windows 95? It still works... Whats the problem with people keeping on using that? -- Vesty. Back to top Vesty Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:27 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Duane Hebert wrote: Quote: "Kenneth de Camargo" <INVERT:rb.moc.arret@jcrk> wrote in message news:xn0dpa9jktett8001 (AT) forums (DOT) borland.com... Andrue Cope [TeamB] wrote: What most people are complaining about is: * Not getting any decent updates for a long time. * Suddenly being told that our primary development tool has been killed off. * Being kept hoping/guessing for over a year with only minor tidbits of information being released most of which get contradicted a short while later. You left the bit about the "open letters" out. And the bit about the cross platform tool with the 100% compliant compiler Or the all new amazing framework agnostic visual designer!! Wow, this thread could go on forever... -- Vesty. Back to top Des O'Toole Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version "John" <jcurtis (AT) tandbergtv (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? The problem from my point of view is that Windows is a moving target. XP SP2 was recently released, it was known to break a number of existing apps. What if an SP3 is released, and BCB apps don't work correctly with it? This is my primary concern. Des Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:44 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version BCB has been mis-managed by Borland, IMO. Delphi was lucky. Helsjberg was poached, and it was downhill from there. I am a firm believer in the genius developer's framework concept, where one person comes up with a brilliant design idea, and it gets developed into a full-blown product. Delphi started it, then came BCB, a kind of sister product to Delphi, giving people the choice of development language. Little did Borland realise that offering C++ in the same framework as Delphi, would prove to be so popular. Then, Borland's genius was bought by Microsoft, and he was employed to design an interpreted language called C#, which he did admirably well, but without the success that his own baby Delphi (and BCB) had brought. C# is still not that popular (well it's just too slow, like Java). The fallacy of Borland management's logic is that they think there is a bigger market for CBX, because the sales team told them so. At this year's conference, it was easily evidenced that the sales team were wrong, and the BCB following was severely underestimated, and still full of voice despite no new releases for over a year. The facts speak for themselves - it takes a typical corporate management team to ignore them as successfully as Borland has so far. -- Mark Jacobs DK Computing http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk "Andrue Cope [TeamB]" <no.spam (AT) not (DOT) a.valid.address> wrote Quote: I've talked to enough of their staff to accept that it wasn't malicious intent nor incompetent management that caused the problems. Back to top Max Headroom Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:49 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version John wrote: Quote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? The biggest problem is that over a year ago, Borland declaired it to be an End-Of-Life product. They told everyone to upgrade to C BuilderX(CBX). But, it didn't take anyone more than a milisecond to realize that BCB code does not work under CBX. Offically, at this point in time, there will be no Borland program released in the future that will run BCB6 code. The problems created are: 1) There is no assurance that there will ever be any product support form Borland in fixing bugs or instillation problems with new versions of Windows, etc. 2) There is no likelyhood that there will be third party support such as how-to books, support forums, software tool packages, etc. 3) All source code is instantly obsolete. For the professional developer, these are make or break issues. PD have clients who spend their hard earned money on software development. They look for a good return on their investment. In other words, they want their code to be serviceable for at least twenty years. With these problems it is impossible to sell BCB to clients or get new clients to sign new contracts for projects written in BCB. PD are doomed if they don't find a new develpoment environment. Back to top Mark Jacobs Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:55 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version My latest market research software *has* to work on *any* Windows 32-bit platform, from Win95 through to XP SP2 Pro. BCB5 SP1 Pro fulfills that need admirably, and my software runs fine on all these platforms with no mods required. I am afraid .NET will just not hack it on Win95, so it really is pointless me trying to target .NET at the moment. Which begs the question, "How many other developers are currently finding .NET a distraction to their cause, rather than something to immediately adopt and target apps at?" It also begs, "When are management going to get their heads out of buzzword world, and into reality?". I simply do not believe there is currently a massive need for ..NET targeted products, so why are Borland producing so many of them? I am still waiting to try my first .NET app out, as soon as I run across one - anywhere. -- Mark Jacobs DK Computing http://www.dkcomputing.co.uk "Vesty" <no (AT) email (DOT) com> wrote Quote: John wrote: Why are people complaining. Are there bugs in the latest version? If not, what's the problem with carrying on using it, even if Borland doesn't bring out a newer version? Whats wrong with windows 95? It still works... Whats the problem with people keeping on using that? Back to top Max Headroom Guest Posted: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: What/'s wrong with the latest BCB version Mark Jacobs wrote: Quote: My latest market research software *has* to work on *any* Windows 32-bit platform, from Win95 through to XP SP2 Pro. BCB5 SP1 Pro fulfills that need admirably, and my software runs fine on all these platforms with no mods required. I am afraid .NET will just not hack it on Win95, so it really is pointless me trying to target .NET at the moment. Which begs the question, "How many other developers are currently finding .NET a distraction to their cause, rather than something to immediately adopt and target apps at?" It also begs, "When are management going to get their heads out of buzzword world, and into reality?". I simply do not believe there is currently a massive need for .NET targeted products, so why are Borland producing so many of them? I am still waiting to try my first .NET app out, as soon as I run across one - anywhere. Norton Ghost V9 Showshifter If you have a TV tuner card I haven't tried NG9 but the website claimes 256M system requirement. If you are going to try showshifter be ready for a Shock!!! It sucks up 130M to load and it is slow as molasis. 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