BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  x64 and Delphi Goto page 1, 2  Next          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Thirdparty Tools (General) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Andy Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 6:03 am    Post subject: x64 and Delphi Can Delphi run and compile in x64 machines and OS? Thanks Andy Back to top David J Taylor Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 10:05 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Jason wrote: Quote: yes, delphi apps can run in x64 windows, but windows automatically will run them emulated. clear 64bit code can be only produced by Microsoft Visual Studio and .NET 2 We are all waiting for Borland's 64bit native compiler. 2007+ What was the report about, then, which said that Delphi apps produced with versions prior to Delphi 2006 didn't work correctly on Vista? Obviously, if you're looking at near-future OSes both 64-bit and Vista might need to be considered. David Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:08 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "Jason" wrote: Quote: I dont know any known issue that says Delphi 7 apps doesnt work on Vista. I tested my app (D7) with a beta version of Vista. Everything looks ok, emulated to 32bit. When you say "emulated", it sounds soooo sloooow! I'm not an expert in CPU design, but I would assume that a 64-bit processor supports 32-bit and 16-bit instruction sets, so there is no emulation at work. In any case, I run my apps compiled with D4-D2006 on one 64-bit AMD X2 4400 and I wouldn't say they run in some kind of an emulator. A 64-bit app would have access to a larger set of asm instructions than a 32-bit app and thus have more possibilities for optimizing the code to run faster. They will also use 64-bit pointers and have access to a much larger address space to excede the 32-bit Memory Limit (2GB with default Delphi RTL MM, up to 3GB with FastMM and special setup). Or what did you mean by "emulated to 32bit"? -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "Jason" wrote: Quote: I dont know any known issue that says Delphi 7 apps doesnt work on Vista. Or were you talking about Windows 64-bit? Since 32-bit Windows supports 16-bit applications, I'd guess that 64-bit Windows also supports 32-bit and 16-bit applications. So, there's no need to panic. -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:13 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Btw ... I should have quoted David, not Jason. Didn't plan on starting a discussion with Jason, simply replied to the last post in thread ) -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top Jens Gruschel Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:29 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Quote: When you say "emulated", it sounds soooo sloooow! That's what I thought, too. "Emulated" is such a hard word. It makes me think of some software, which executes the machine code of a program like an interpreter. Like you I think that 32 bit applications cannot use all possibilities of a 64 bit machine, but run like they would on a 32 bit machine (except maybe that it takes some additional instructions to switch between a 32 bit process and a 64 bit process). I've heared that 32 bit software even runs faster on 64 bit machines than on 32 bit machines (although I think tests were made with a 32 bit OS on both machines), but probably it's hard to compare because different CPUs do different things differently. Anyway a 64 bit Delphi compiler would be very nice (I'm not talking about .net). Jens -- Jens Gruschel http://www.pegtop.net Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "Jens Gruschel" wrote: Quote: When you say "emulated", it sounds soooo sloooow! That's what I thought, too. "Emulated" is such a hard word. It makes me think of some software, which executes the machine code of a program like an interpreter. ) Quote: Anyway a 64 bit Delphi compiler would be very nice (I'm not talking about .net). Same here. I hope D2007 will be a 64-bit compiler. I don't like to think that everything will have to be .NET in the future. Simply doing some Memory Manager tests makes be feel creepy if I start to imagine how a Garbage collector in .NET (like the one in Java) will be responsible for cleaning up my Servers Memory when it "feels like it". Anyone wrote any high-load Server software in .NET yet? -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top David J Taylor Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] wrote: Quote: "Jason" wrote: I dont know any known issue that says Delphi 7 apps doesnt work on Vista. Or were you talking about Windows 64-bit? Since 32-bit Windows supports 16-bit applications, I'd guess that 64-bit Windows also supports 32-bit and 16-bit applications. So, there's no need to panic. There was a thread recently (and I can't find it quickly right now) which suggested that because of a Borland coding error, Delphi 2005 and below programs would not display correctly on Win64. IIRC, the problem was related to owner-draw parts of components. I was mistaking Win-64 and Vista when I wrote earlier - and that's why I couldn't find it in Google! Now I can: http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.vcl.components.writing.win32/browse_frm/thread/aad5c283cd13d46b/dbe90bb636da747b?lnk=st&q=delphi+Win64+ownerdraw&rnum=2#dbe90bb636da747b There doesn't seem to be any suggestion that Borland are proposing to fix this, other than saying recompile all your stuff in Delphi 2006, with all the effort that might require. See: QC# 19859 [Noted that you meant me and not Jason] David Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:16 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "David J Taylor" wrote: http://groups.google.com/group/borland.public.delphi.vcl.components.writing.win32/browse_frm/thread/aad5c283cd13d46b/dbe90bb636da747b?lnk=st&q=delphi+Win64+ownerdraw&rnum=2#dbe90bb636da747b I have just checked the D2006 sources and here is a snippet from the "Controls.pas" unit from D2006 ... -------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.hwndItem, Message) then inherited; end; -------- The Newspost you reffer to has suggested this to be the correct implementation for Win64, so I guess they have repaired the problem in D2006. -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:20 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "Danijel Tkalcec [RTC]" wrote: Quote: I have just checked the D2006 sources and here is a snippet from the "Controls.pas" unit from D2006 ... -------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.hwndItem, Message) then inherited; end; -------- Delphi 7 has this same procedure implemented as ... ------------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; ------------ which the Newspost you reffer to suggests to be wrong. I don't have D2005 source code, so I can't check there. -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top David J Taylor Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 12:39 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] wrote: Quote: "Danijel Tkalcec [RTC]" wrote: I have just checked the D2006 sources and here is a snippet from the "Controls.pas" unit from D2006 ... -------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.hwndItem, Message) then inherited; end; -------- Delphi 7 has this same procedure implemented as ... ------------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; ------------ which the Newspost you reffer to suggests to be wrong. I don't have D2005 source code, so I can't check there. Delphi 5 has: procedure TWinControl.WMMeasureItem(var Message: TWMMeasureItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.MeasureItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; which is the same as Delphi 7. Is there a resolution for this? David Back to top Daniel Alvarez Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Delphi 4's one: (the same) procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; Daniel Alvarez "David J Taylor" <davidtaylor (AT) writeme (DOT) com.not-this-part.invalid> wrote in message news:43b3d8a6$1 (AT) newsgroups (DOT) borland.com... Quote: Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] wrote: "Danijel Tkalcec [RTC]" wrote: I have just checked the D2006 sources and here is a snippet from the "Controls.pas" unit from D2006 ... -------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.hwndItem, Message) then inherited; end; -------- Delphi 7 has this same procedure implemented as ... ------------- procedure TWinControl.WMDrawItem(var Message: TWMDrawItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.DrawItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; ------------ which the Newspost you reffer to suggests to be wrong. I don't have D2005 source code, so I can't check there. Delphi 5 has: procedure TWinControl.WMMeasureItem(var Message: TWMMeasureItem); begin if not DoControlMsg(Message.MeasureItemStruct^.CtlID, Message) then inherited; end; which is the same as Delphi 7. Is there a resolution for this? David Back to top Roy M Klever Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:06 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Hi Danijel, Quote: Since 32-bit Windows supports 16-bit applications, I'd guess that 64-bit Windows also supports 32-bit and 16-bit applications. So, there's no need to panic. As I have understood it, Windows 64 will no longer support 16 bit applications and 32 bit application will run like 16 bit applications run on 32 bit Windows today WOW. Windows on Windows emulation mode. This is what I have made out of the info I have found. Kind Regards Roy Magne Klever www.rmklever.com Back to top David J Taylor Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:17 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi Roy M Klever wrote: Quote: Hi Danijel, Since 32-bit Windows supports 16-bit applications, I'd guess that 64-bit Windows also supports 32-bit and 16-bit applications. So, there's no need to panic. As I have understood it, Windows 64 will no longer support 16 bit applications and 32 bit application will run like 16 bit applications run on 32 bit Windows today WOW. Windows on Windows emulation mode. This is what I have made out of the info I have found. Kind Regards Roy Magne Klever www.rmklever.com Yes, indeed, and the general findings are that applications run just as quickly as before, if not perhaps a little faster because of a more efficient OS. However, it seems that Delphi applications prior to those compiled with Delphi 2006 may not display correctly because of an error in the Borland runtime library. David Back to top Danijel Tkalcec [RTC] Guest Posted: Thu Dec 29, 2005 3:43 pm    Post subject: Re: x64 and Delphi "David J Taylor" wrote: Quote: Roy M Klever wrote: Hi Danijel, As I have understood it, Windows 64 will no longer support 16 bit applications and 32 bit application will run like 16 bit applications run on 32 bit Windows today WOW. Windows on Windows emulation mode. Yes, indeed, and the general findings are that applications run just as quickly as before, if not perhaps a little faster because of a more efficient OS. It was nice from Borland to start supporting 32-bit applications from D2. I hope they will continue this good tradition and include a 64-bit compiler with D2007 ) I like the .NET idea, but I don't think it will ever be able to fully replace the power of Win32/64. Some applications don't need the possibility to run on different platforms, while some will only be hindered by the Garbage collector in .NET (same as in Java). I've witnessed Java apps which started to crawl after running for a couple of months and swallowing all available RAM, going after Virtual Memory (hard drive). -- Danijel Tkalcec http://www.deltasoft.hr/rtc/author.htm Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> Delphi Thirdparty Tools (General) All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2   Jump to: Select a forum C++ Builder Newsgroups----------------C++ BuilderC++ Builder (ActiveX)C++ Builder (Announcements)C++ Builder (Command Line Tools)C++ Builder DatabasesC++ Builder Databases (ADO)C++ Builder Databases (Desktop)C++ Builder Databases (InterBase Express)C++ Builder Databases (Multi-Tier)C++ Builder Databases (SQL Servers)C++ Builder (Graphics)C++ Builder (IDE)C++ Builder (Internet)C++ Builder (Internet Socket)C++ Builder (Internet Web)C++ Builder (Jobs)C++ Builder (Language)C++ Builder (Language C++)C++ Builder (Compatibility with MFC)C++ Builder (Native API)C++ Builder (Non-Technical)C++ Builder (Students)C++ Builder (Third Party Tools)C++ Builder (Upgrade)C++ Builder (VCL)C++ Builder (VCL Components Usage)C++ Builder (VCL Components Development)C++ Builder (VCL Usage)C++ Builder (WinAPI)C++ Builder Installation Delphi Newsgroups----------------Delphi (General)Delphi ActiveX Controls UsageDelphi ActiveX Controls DevelopmentDelphi As400Delphi DatabasesDelphi Databases (ADO)Delphi Databases (dbExpress)Delphi Databases (Desktop)Delphi Databases (InterBase Express)Delphi Databases (Multi-Tier)Delphi Databases (SQL Servers)Delphi DeploymentDelphi GraphicsDelphi IDEDelphi InternationalizationDelphi InternetDelphi Internet Isapi-WebBrokerDelphi Internet WebSnapDelphi Internet WinsockDelphi JobsDelphi Language BASMDelphi Language ObjectPascalDelphi Model Driven Architecture (General)Delphi Model Driven Architecture (Third Party)Delphi MultimediaDelphi Native APIDelphi Non-TechnicalDelphi ObjectPascalDelphi OLE AutomationDelphi OO designDelphi OpenToolsAPIDelphi Reporting-ChartingDelphi RTLDelphi StudentsDelphi TeamSourceDelphi Thirdparty ToolsDelphi Thirdparty Tools (General)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (IntraWeb)Delphi Thirdparty Tools (RaveReports)Delphi UpgradeDelphi VCLDelphi VCL ComponentsDelphi VCL Components UsingDelphi VCL Components WritingDelphi WebServices SOAPDelphi WinAPIDelphi XMLDelphi Installationcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.misccomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.usagecomp.lang.pascal.delphi.components.writingcomp.lang.pascal.delphi.databasescomp.lang.pascal.delphi.misccomp.sources.delphi JBuilder Newsgroups----------------JBuilderJBuilder AnnouncementsJBuilder Applet IssuesJBuilder As400JBuilder CompilerJBuilder CORBA/RMIJBuilder DatabasesJBuilder DB SwingJBuilder DebuggerJBuilder DeploymentJBuilder DocumentationJBuilder EnterpriseJBuilder HandheldJBuilder IDEJBuilder JavaJBuilder JavaAPIJBuilder Java LanguageJBuilder Java SwingJBuilder Java BeansJBuilder Java Beans UsageJBuilder Java Beans DevelopmentJBuilder JBCLJBuilder JDataStoreJBuilder JobsJBuilder LinuxJBuilder MacintoshJBuilder & MobileSetJBuilder MultiLingual AppsJBuilder Non-TechnicalJBuilder OpenToolsJBuilder Servlets (JSP)JBuilder StudentsJBuilder Team DevelopmentJBuilder Thirdparty ToolsJBuilder UpgradeJBuilder Installation InterBase Newsgroups----------------InterBaseInterBase Bug DiscussionInterBase GeneralInterBase IBConsoleInterBase OpenSourceInterBase ReplicationInterBase SQLInterBase ThirdpartyInterBase Installation Miscellaneous Borland Newsgroups----------------AppCenterAppServerEnteraVisiBroker  You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2006 phpBB Group SEO toolkit © 2004-2006 webmedic.