BorlandTalk.com Borland discussion newsgroups   Archives   FAQ   Search   Memberlist   Usergroups   Register   Profile   Log in to check your private messages   Log in  XAML          BorlandTalk.com Forum Index -> C++ Builder (Non-Technical) View previous topic :: View next topic   Author Message Peter Agricola Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:05 pm    Post subject: XAML Dave Jewell" wrote: Quote: Well, TBH, yes. We know that graphics is slower under .NET, startup is slower under .NET, etc. When Longhorn comes out, this will hopefully change. I'm also expecting to see RAD-based visual form designers which spit out XAML -- this is a necessary part of Microsoft's Longhorn vision, I think. Why do we need XAML? This is from MS site: <uncle Bill says> "XAML" is the primary way to create a UI in the "Longhorn" programming model because it provides a way to separate UI definition from logic and enables you to integrate code within or behind markup. The ability to mix code with markup is important because XML does not support flow control well. In "Longhorn", applications can be written entirely in "XAML" and deployed "loose" like HTML but if you need imperative code to react to user interaction you must mix markup with code and compile the application. </uncle Bill says> As I understand this correct you can use XAML for creating an userinterface. Something people working with Borland tools usually do in a form designer, not by typing weird commands. How the designer stores the userinterface doesn't matter, although it has proven for me very important it is in a human readable format. But text based .dfm was fine. Peter Back to top Peter Agricola Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: XAML "Peter Agricola" wrote: I forgot the link: http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com/lhsdk/core/overviews/about%20xaml.aspx Peter Back to top Dave Jewell Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 3:54 pm    Post subject: Re: XAML "Peter Agricola" <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Why do we need XAML? As I understand this correct you can use XAML for creating an userinterface. Something people working with Borland tools usually do in a form designer, not by typing weird commands. How the designer stores the userinterface doesn't matter, although it has proven for me very important it is in a human readable format. But text based .dfm was fine. The point about XAML is that it will become standard across tools from different manufacturers. A DFM file was only ever Borland-specific. With XAML you will be able to generate XAML files with a design tool from one manufacturer and build an EXE with build tools from someone else. And there's also the localisation issue -- XAML makes it easy to find/replace control captions, etc, in a user interface. With the current WinForms arrangement (InitializeComponent method) you have to be able to parse C# code and VB.NET code and C++ code and...... XAML eliminates all that nonsense. As regards your point about "typing weird commands", this is exactly why visual designers will need to generate XAML. I believe that the final release of VS.NET for Longhorn will do this. Hopefully, Borland will catch on to this as well. Dave Back to top Peter Agricola Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 4:42 pm    Post subject: Re: XAML "Dave Jewell" wrote: Quote: The point about XAML is that it will become standard across tools from different manufacturers. A DFM file was only ever Borland-specific. With XAML you will be able to generate XAML files with a design tool from one manufacturer and build an EXE with build tools from someone else. Ok. There will be independent Form designers in .NET. Just like in wxWindows . Quote: And there's also the localisation issue -- XAML makes it easy to find/replace control captions, etc, in a user interface. With the current WinForms arrangement (InitializeComponent method) you have to be able to parse C# code and VB.NET code and C++ code and...... XAML eliminates all that nonsense. I'm not sure I understand this. With Visual Designers this isn't an issue isn't it? Peter Back to top OBones Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:37 pm    Post subject: Re: XAML Peter Agricola wrote: Quote: This is from MS site: uncle Bill says "XAML" is the primary way to create a UI in the "Longhorn" programming model because it provides a way to separate UI definition from logic and enables you to integrate code within or behind markup. The ability to mix code with markup is important because XML does not support flow control well. In "Longhorn", applications can be written entirely in "XAML" and deployed "loose" like HTML but if you need imperative code to react to user interaction you must mix markup with code and compile the application. /uncle Bill says Why does this thing sounds so much like XUL in Mozilla ???? Back to top Dave Jewell Guest Posted: Thu Jan 22, 2004 11:47 pm    Post subject: Re: XAML "Peter Agricola" <please (AT) no-spam (DOT) com> wrote Quote: Ok. There will be independent Form designers in .NET. Just like in wxWindows . I don't know much about wxWindows. I'm just saying that by having an 'open' standard, you can use all sorts of tools to build user interfaces. For example, you might write an add-in for VS.NET which saves time by automatically generating a multi-page Wizard-style layout. Quote: I'm not sure I understand this. With Visual Designers this isn't an issue isn't it? Depends on the tool-set you're using. The accepted wisdom is to put all your localizable strings in resources, etc. Again, I'm just saying that XAML gives you an open, accessible file format for fiddling with such things. The irony here is that we've come full circle, in a sense. DFM files in Delphi (text ones, not binary) are essentially the same sort of thing. Allen Bauer mentions this in his blog (http://homepages.borland.com/abauer/archives/2003_10_26_archive.html) but he conveniently forgets that FRM files (VB) are a lot older..... ) Dave Back to top Chris Hill Guest Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 5:11 am    Post subject: Re: XAML On Fri, 23 Jan 2004 09:37:51 +1000, OBones <obones_fff_ (AT) meloo_fdf_ (DOT) com> wrote: Quote: Why does this thing sounds so much like XUL in Mozilla ???? It is similar (just like many graphics constructs in XAML are similar to SVG), but there also differences. The elements in XAML are mapped into .NET classes, so you can extend the language with your own classes/elements. I think XAML is even more ambitious than XUL was when it was introduced. MS has the resources to fully develop XAML, which is one thing that has hampered XUL. Chris Hill [email]Chris244 (AT) aol (DOT) com[/email] Back to top Randall Parker Guest Posted: Fri Jan 23, 2004 7:18 am    Post subject: Re: XAML OBones wrote: Quote: Peter Agricola wrote: This is from MS site: uncle Bill says "XAML" is the primary way to create a UI in the "Longhorn" programming model because it provides a way to separate UI definition from logic and enables you to integrate code within or behind markup. The ability to mix code with markup is important because XML does not support flow control well. In "Longhorn", applications can be written entirely in "XAML" and deployed "loose" like HTML but if you need imperative code to react to user interaction you must mix markup with code and compile the application. /uncle Bill says Why does this thing sounds so much like XUL in Mozilla ???? My thoughts exactly. I have long thought it very unfortunate that there are not more programmers working to make XUL more useful for purposes other than making the Mozilla suite of apps. 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